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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 26 Nov 2009 17:06
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:49:51 -0800, in2dadark wrote:

> On Nov 22, 9:33 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:
>> "ben91932" <benteac...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3fcb0f20-2213-4d0e-8228-3640cf49ae5f(a)z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> >> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
>> >> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal
>> >> confusion to me.
>>
>> >> Ed
>>
>> > IIRC, obd2 can store values like brake pressure....
>>
>> As Jeff Strickland posted, some vehicles have a separate recording
>> device that is separate from OBD II.  OBD II does not store pedal
>> pressure as most vehicles do not have a pedal pressure sensor.
>>
>> BTW, there is another indicator besides discolored brake rotors and
>> black boxes as to whether the brakes were applied at the time of impact.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>
> And that would be...?


I would think skid marks. If you apply the brakes on a front wheel drive
car, even though the ABS would kick in, the rears would hop and make a
dotted line along the roadway.

However, this might have been an AWD Lexus, and in this case the engine's
HP might overcome the brakes...?


From: Scott Dorsey on 26 Nov 2009 21:35
in2dadark <in2dadark(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 22, 9:33=A0pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> BTW, there is another indicator besides discolored brake rotors and black
>> boxes as to whether the brakes were applied at the time of impact.
>
>And that would be...?

Most common one is the condition of the brake light bulb filaments. If
they broke under impact while the light was illuminated, there will be
metal sputtered on the inside the envelope and the edges of the filament
break will be melted. If they broke under impact while the light was
cold, it will be a clean break with no sputtered metal.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Ray O on 27 Nov 2009 10:43

"in2dadark" <in2dadark(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b6cd16f3-c946-42ae-a6f7-afafcb5d863a(a)p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 22, 9:33 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com>
wrote:
> "ben91932" <benteac...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3fcb0f20-2213-4d0e-8228-3640cf49ae5f(a)z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> >> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> >> to me.
>
> >> Ed
>
> > IIRC, obd2 can store values like brake pressure....
>
> As Jeff Strickland posted, some vehicles have a separate recording device
> that is separate from OBD II. OBD II does not store pedal pressure as most
> vehicles do not have a pedal pressure sensor.
>
> BTW, there is another indicator besides discolored brake rotors and black
> boxes as to whether the brakes were applied at the time of impact.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)

And that would be...?

********

As Scott Dorsey mentioned, the brake light bulbs can give an indication of
whether or not the lights were illuminated at the time of impact.

I can't confirm whether or not Scott's explanation if correct or not, but it
sounds plausible.

We used to have to check out vehicles where the operator claimed that a
defect in the vehicle caused an accident, and I noticed that police
technicians often removed the brake light bulbs or tail light assemblies,
and when I asked the technician why he was removing the bulbs, he said that
the brake light bulbs tell a story.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: hls on 1 Dec 2009 15:00

"Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
>
> As Scott Dorsey mentioned, the brake light bulbs can give an indication of
> whether or not the lights were illuminated at the time of impact.
>
> I can't confirm whether or not Scott's explanation if correct or not, but
> it sounds plausible.
>
> We used to have to check out vehicles where the operator claimed that a
> defect in the vehicle caused an accident, and I noticed that police
> technicians often removed the brake light bulbs or tail light assemblies,
> and when I asked the technician why he was removing the bulbs, he said
> that the brake light bulbs tell a story.
> --
>
> Ray O

I can reasonably accept that the carpets caused some of the problems, or
that in
some cases a driver had his or her foot on both pedals, but Toyota needs to
slay this
dragon once and for all.

I have two newish Toyotas, and neither one of them has ever misbehaved or
given me
anything at all to complain about.

I am sure that if this happened to me, I COULD get the car stopped. I am
not so sure
about my wife, even though we have gone through the drill.

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