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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 6 Feb 2010 10:37
On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:20:35 -0800, john wrote:

>
> I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
> and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!

<YAWN> Keep taking the bus. You can tell the driver what he's doing wrong.


From: Scott Dorsey on 6 Feb 2010 14:49
john <johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
>and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
>
>Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
>can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
>to hit it just so."
>
>One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
>Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
>Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.

The correct answer to that is, "don't hit the pothole."

Maybe the owner should get a Lincoln Continental instead, then she'd
know what lurching really means.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 6 Feb 2010 16:42
On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:31:22 -0600, Al Falfa wrote:

>
>
> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D1750E6FA99tegger(a)208.90.168.18...
>> john <johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:099eb70a-19f1-46de-b6d5-2c63c0d3642d(a)u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
>>> and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> You're aware that Ford has admitted to having the exact same problem
>> with its hybrids?
>>
> Does Ford still license their hybrid technology from Toyota?


Nope.


From: Neo on 7 Feb 2010 21:58
On Feb 6, 12:20 am, john <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
> and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
>
> Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
> can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
> to hit it just so."


It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact
conditions when the problem occurs - the
problem must be repeatable if the cause and
solution is to be determine. You have the
same problem when you go to the doctor
- if the doctor can't find a repeatably
measurable problem with you - he's going to
assume you are a hypochondriac.
you need to have all your ducks in a
row if you expect to make any progress.


>
> One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
> Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
> Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
>
> The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
> specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
>
> http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-c...


As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when
the car hits a pothole at high speed the computer sensors will
sense that the tire has momentarily loss traction in that wheel
and which would mean that hydraulic brakes would be momentarily
useless in that particular wheel. In order for the car not to spin
out of control while it is going in a straight line, the ESC would
try to adjust the speed on the other wheel on that same axle
so both wheels on that axle are going at the same speed.
However, this situation should not cause the car to
accelerate the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when
the tire loses traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric
motor to prevent the electric motor from burning out. When a tire
loses
traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse
the hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs
to do is keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer
does the rest. To increase braking response time, Toyota
can reprogram the brakes to have shorter the time delay
between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other possible
change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic
braking system during braking operations - when an emergency
stopping situation is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008
Prius rental from Enterprise for a combination of over
1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking problems,
sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems
at all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised
to read about this problem last year. I suspect that this is
not so much a problem with Toyota but with the
technology they've used -and while some people are
frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink
are downright reprehensible and ugly.

From: The Tree on 8 Feb 2010 06:06
In article
<c3f7f08e-6636-40d3-955c-6683699a78de(a)o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Neo <residualselfimage1999(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 6, 12:20�am, john <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
> > and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
> >
> > Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
> > can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
> > to hit it just so."
>
>
> It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact
> conditions when the problem occurs - the
> problem must be repeatable if the cause and
> solution is to be determine. You have the
> same problem when you go to the doctor
> - if the doctor can't find a repeatably
> measurable problem with you - he's going to
> assume you are a hypochondriac.
> you need to have all your ducks in a
> row if you expect to make any progress.
>
>
> >
> > One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
> > Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
> > Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
> >
> > The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
> > specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
> >
> > http://www.freep.com/article/20100204/BUSINESS01/2040468/2010-Prius-c...
>
>
> As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when
> the car hits a pothole at high speed the computer sensors will
> sense that the tire has momentarily loss traction in that wheel
> and which would mean that hydraulic brakes would be momentarily
> useless in that particular wheel. In order for the car not to spin
> out of control while it is going in a straight line, the ESC would
> try to adjust the speed on the other wheel on that same axle
> so both wheels on that axle are going at the same speed.
> However, this situation should not cause the car to
> accelerate the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when
> the tire loses traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric
> motor to prevent the electric motor from burning out. When a tire
> loses
> traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
> conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse
> the hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs
> to do is keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer
> does the rest. To increase braking response time, Toyota
> can reprogram the brakes to have shorter the time delay
> between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other possible
> change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
> from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic
> braking system during braking operations - when an emergency
> stopping situation is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008
> Prius rental from Enterprise for a combination of over
> 1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking problems,
> sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems
> at all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised
> to read about this problem last year. I suspect that this is
> not so much a problem with Toyota but with the
> technology they've used -and while some people are
> frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
> anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink
> are downright reprehensible and ugly.

You hit the nail on the head.

Toyota vehicles have become too sophisticated for drivers. They have
not a clue as to the innovative features on their new car. For those,
we must have a model T to drive, with air conditioning.
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