2008 Prius Cruise Control Resume Led to Runaway
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From: john on 6 Nov 2009 00:05 http://www.freep.com/article/20091104/BUSINESS01/911040368/1207/BUSINESS0104/Some-dont-buy-mats-at-fault-for-Toyota-accidents Some don't buy mats at fault for Toyota accidents N.C. couple say their car sped, caught fire BY GREG GARDNER FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER Toyota Motor Corp.'s campaign to get customers to remove or replace floor mats, which the Japanese automaker is blaming for unintended acceleration cases, isn't convincing to some of its drivers, such as Grover and Barbara Walton. More than 300 complaints have been filed with federal regulators about the problem, including at least six involving fatalities, and Toyota says the floor mats are to blame. But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling Springs, N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 Toyota Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal town, Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise control. "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," said Grover, a retired property manager. He said he hit the brakes, which slowed the car. But when Walton released the brake pedal, he said his Prius surged again. "Before my husband could safely get the car off the road, he had ridden the brakes so hard to avoid an accident that flames were coming from behind both front wheels where the brakes had caught fire," Barbara Walton said. After exiting the car, Grover scooped up several hands full of sand and threw it on the brake pads until the flames went out. They called a Toyota dealership in Myrtle Beach to tow it. The Waltons picked up their car three days later and drove home. While Toyota is defending lawsuits from people whose spouses or loved ones were killed in cases of unintended acceleration, the Waltons were not injured and said they have not sued. But they are convinced that a floor mat did not cause their perilous experience. The car did have a rubberized all-weather floor mat that was fastened to the underlying hooks and was so firm that Walton said he could not bend it enough to interfere with the accelerator. He removed it after last month's incident. Toyota executive Bob Carter said Monday that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had closed six investigations into complaints of Toyota or Lexus vehicles that accelerated faster than the driver intended. All six cases, he said, concluded with NHTSA finding no defect other than an unsecured or incompatible floor mat. One of those complaints was filed by Jeffrey Pepski of Plymouth, Minn., who last April reported unintended acceleration in his 2007 Lexus ES350. NHTSA has received 64 similar complaints for 2007 Lexus models. On Oct. 29, NHTSA concluded 50 of those incidents, including all 15 cases in which someone was injured, were caused by floor mat interference. It denied Pepski's request for further investigation, but said that its decision does not constitute a finding ... that a safety-related defect does not exist." NHTSA reiterated that to the Free Press on Tuesday. "Removal of the mats is simply an interim measure," said NHTSA spokeswoman Karen Aldana. "NHTSA will be discussing with Toyota what the appropriate vehicle remedy or remedies will be."
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 5 Nov 2009 22:44 On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: > But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling Springs, > N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 Toyota > Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. > > It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal town, > Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise control. > > "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," said > Grover, a retired property manager. I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. A lot of people just plain don't have it.
From: fred on 6 Nov 2009 07:47 =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604(a)e86.GTS: > On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: > >> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >> Springs, N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their >> 2008 Toyota Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. >> >> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal town, >> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >> control. >> >> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," said >> Grover, a retired property manager. > > I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to > TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. > > A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. > A lot of people just plain don't have it. > Held down the brake pedal until they caught fire too. Sounds to me like this Toyota "problem" is just Darwin in action.
From: C. E. White on 6 Nov 2009 07:51 "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604(a)e86.GTS... > On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: > >> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >> Springs, >> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 >> Toyota >> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. >> >> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >> town, >> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >> control. >> >> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >> said >> Grover, a retired property manager. > > I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to > TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small coastal town. I assume they were on the highway. Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does reset to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota uses for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even sure how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how to turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder about the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The cruise control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be any better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit.... I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car problem. Here is what I think may have happened... The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to the previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like my SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to accelerate the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked and started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running wild. Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point as quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake pedal, but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. So while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the accelerator. At that point he was sure the car was running away and he pressed even harder, resulting in the situation described in the post. I don't know how the pedals are arranged in the Prius, but in the RAV4 this is something that can happen to someone with large feet. The pedals ae very close together and if you are not careful you can end up pressing both at once. And it is not just Toyotas that have this problem. An Expedition I owned had exactly the same problem...I could easily press both pedals at once in a panic situation. This is starting to look like a lot of other media driven frenzies (Audi 5000, Chey truck gas tanks, Explorer Tires, etc.). The media over hypes the story, jumps to some erroneous conclusions, and people start crawling out of the woodwork claiming they have that problem also. And then the trial lawyer et involved and things go to s*%t. I already see Clarance Ditlow name in some articles on this subject. He is about as crooked a snake as ever slithered out from under a rock. I have complained about how jerky and violent the RAV4 cruise control can be. Toyota has a service bulletin that addresses the concern. So far I have not been able to get the SO to take her RAV4 in to get it reprogrammed. I was talking to my sister about this whole cruise control concern the other night. I mentioned that I tried to get the SO to take in her RAV4 to get the cruise control reprogrammed. My sister said she didn't need to take hers in because the cruise control worked OK. I then mentioned how the SO's reacted in some situations (the violent acceleration) and she said, "oh yeah mine does that too"...and so she is going to take hers in to get it looked after. It is my thought that this violent reaction by the cruise control to resume under some conditions causes people to react improperly. Interestingly my other sister's RAV4 with the V6 does not react the same at all. Ed > A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. > A lot of people just plain don't have it. > > >
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 6 Nov 2009 08:38
C. E. White wrote: > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message > news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604(a)e86.GTS... >> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: >> >>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >>> Springs, >>> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 >>> Toyota >>> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. >>> >>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >>> town, >>> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >>> control. >>> >>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >>> said >>> Grover, a retired property manager. >> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to >> TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. > > The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small > coastal town. I assume they were on the highway. > > > > Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does reset > to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota uses > for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even sure > how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how to > turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder about > the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The cruise > control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. > They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the > cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be any > better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand > why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit.... > > > > I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car > problem. Here is what I think may have happened... > > > > The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to the > previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like my > SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to accelerate > the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the > SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked and > started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the > driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running wild. > Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point as > quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running > wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake pedal, > but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. So > while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the > accelerator. At that point he was sure the car was running away and he > pressed even harder, resulting in the situation described in the post. > I don't know how the pedals are arranged in the Prius, but in the RAV4 > this is something that can happen to someone with large feet. The > pedals ae very close together and if you are not careful you can end > up pressing both at once. And it is not just Toyotas that have this > problem. An Expedition I owned had exactly the same problem...I could > easily press both pedals at once in a panic situation. > > > > This is starting to look like a lot of other media driven frenzies > (Audi 5000, Chey truck gas tanks, Explorer Tires, etc.). The media > over hypes the story, jumps to some erroneous conclusions, and people > start crawling out of the woodwork claiming they have that problem > also. And then the trial lawyer et involved and things go to s*%t. I > already see Clarance Ditlow name in some articles on this subject. He > is about as crooked a snake as ever slithered out from under a rock. > > > > I have complained about how jerky and violent the RAV4 cruise control > can be. Toyota has a service bulletin that addresses the concern. So > far I have not been able to get the SO to take her RAV4 in to get it > reprogrammed. I was talking to my sister about this whole cruise > control concern the other night. I mentioned that I tried to get the > SO to take in her RAV4 to get the cruise control reprogrammed. My > sister said she didn't need to take hers in because the cruise control > worked OK. I then mentioned how the SO's reacted in some situations > (the violent acceleration) and she said, "oh yeah mine does that > too"...and so she is going to take hers in to get it looked after. It > is my thought that this violent reaction by the cruise control to > resume under some conditions causes people to react improperly. > Interestingly my other sister's RAV4 with the V6 does not react the > same at all. > > > > Ed DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!! Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's training. The Toyota CC does not clear the memory under 30 MPH like it used to, because it is now a computer based function rather than a vacuum based system. I noticed this with my Scion. If you hit RESUME, even accidently, this happens. There is a button on the END of the stalk to turn the CC off/on. When getting down from 70MPH, I either turn the switch OFF, or set the CC for ~25 MPH, or BOTH. I have been doing this since I bought the car three years ago. Merely because I did not want to be involved in a 'runaway' situation. All Toyota has to do is electronically cancel the resume function once a certain speed is reached, or so many MPH under the set speed. > > > >> A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. >> A lot of people just plain don't have it. >> >> >> > > |