2008 Prius Cruise Control Resume Led to Runaway
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From: E. Meyer on 6 Nov 2009 10:35 On 11/6/09 6:51 AM, in article hd16ad$p9o$1(a)news.eternal-september.org, "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message > news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604(a)e86.GTS... >> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: >> >>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >>> Springs, >>> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their 2008 >>> Toyota >>> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. >>> >>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >>> town, >>> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >>> control. >>> >>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >>> said >>> Grover, a retired property manager. >> >> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough to >> TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. > > The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small > coastal town. I assume they were on the highway. > > > > Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does reset > to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota uses > for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even sure > how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how to > turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder about > the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The cruise > control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. > They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the > cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be any > better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand > why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit.... > > > > I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car > problem. Here is what I think may have happened... > > > > The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to the > previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like my > SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to accelerate > the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the > SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked and > started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the > driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running wild. > Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point as > quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running > wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake pedal, > but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. So > while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the > accelerator. I don't see anything in the story about also pressing the accelerator. I think maybe somebody's assuming "facts not in evidence". At any rate, pressing the brake pedal is supposed to (required to?) cut off the cruise control. Clearly from what is said in the story, it didn't. That's grounds for a recall right there. > At that point he was sure the car was running away and he > pressed even harder, resulting in the situation described in the post. > I don't know how the pedals are arranged in the Prius, but in the RAV4 > this is something that can happen to someone with large feet. The > pedals ae very close together and if you are not careful you can end > up pressing both at once. And it is not just Toyotas that have this > problem. An Expedition I owned had exactly the same problem...I could > easily press both pedals at once in a panic situation. > > > > This is starting to look like a lot of other media driven frenzies > (Audi 5000, Chey truck gas tanks, Explorer Tires, etc.). The media > over hypes the story, jumps to some erroneous conclusions, and people > start crawling out of the woodwork claiming they have that problem > also. And then the trial lawyer et involved and things go to s*%t. I > already see Clarance Ditlow name in some articles on this subject. He > is about as crooked a snake as ever slithered out from under a rock. > > > > I have complained about how jerky and violent the RAV4 cruise control > can be. Toyota has a service bulletin that addresses the concern. So > far I have not been able to get the SO to take her RAV4 in to get it > reprogrammed. I was talking to my sister about this whole cruise > control concern the other night. I mentioned that I tried to get the > SO to take in her RAV4 to get the cruise control reprogrammed. My > sister said she didn't need to take hers in because the cruise control > worked OK. I then mentioned how the SO's reacted in some situations > (the violent acceleration) and she said, "oh yeah mine does that > too"...and so she is going to take hers in to get it looked after. It > is my thought that this violent reaction by the cruise control to > resume under some conditions causes people to react improperly. > Interestingly my other sister's RAV4 with the V6 does not react the > same at all. > > > > Ed > > > >> A lot of driving is just plain Common Sense. >> A lot of people just plain don't have it. >> >> >> > >
From: hls on 6 Nov 2009 11:15 "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:C7199E7D.136D9% > > At any rate, pressing the brake pedal is supposed to (required to?) cut > off > the cruise control. Clearly from what is said in the story, it didn't. > That's grounds for a recall right there. We dont know that the cruise control is really at fault. I dont think there is any ground for recall until the facts are known. There is a lot of speculation and there might be a problem, but we dont really know that yet. And a recall without a firm fix is wasted effort. The implications are too big to suspect that this story will be swept under the carpet.
From: C. E. White on 6 Nov 2009 13:53 "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:C7199E7D.136D9%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... > On 11/6/09 6:51 AM, in article > hd16ad$p9o$1(a)news.eternal-september.org, "C. > E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > >> >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >> news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604(a)e86.GTS... >>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: >>> >>>> But that's not what the Waltons believe. The couple from Boiling >>>> Springs, >>>> N.C., were driving to Murrells Inlet, S.C., Oct. 9 when their >>>> 2008 >>>> Toyota >>>> Prius surged on a marshy four-lane highway. >>>> >>>> It all started when, after slowing down through a small coastal >>>> town, >>>> Walton said he hit the resume-acceleration button on his cruise >>>> control. >>>> >>>> "All of a sudden, we were flying and I hadn't touched the pedal," >>>> said >>>> Grover, a retired property manager. >>> >>> I'm certainly not the world's smartest person, but I know enough >>> to >>> TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL WHEN I GET OFF THE HIGHWAY. >> >> The post says they hit resume after they passed through the small >> coastal town. I assume they were on the highway. >> >> >> >> Once I turn on my cruise control, I don't turn it off (it does >> reset >> to off when I cut off the car). The little doohickey that Toyota >> uses >> for the cruise control takes some getting use to. I am not even >> sure >> how to cut it off. It took me a few minutes just to figure out how >> to >> turn it on the first time I drove the SO's RAV4. I also wonder >> about >> the value of turning it off if this is a software problem. The >> cruise >> control switches are not actul hard switches like in the old days. >> They are just signaling devices that tell the computer you want the >> cruise control off. If the software is hosed up, that might not be >> any >> better than hitting the brakes. I guess I am starting to understand >> why Ford but that stupid hydraulic switch in the brake circuit.... >> >> >> >> I wonder if this isn't more of a panic problem than an actual car >> problem. Here is what I think may have happened... >> >> >> >> The driver hit the resume button at a fairly low speed compared to >> the >> previous set point. If his Prius cruise control react anything like >> my >> SO's RAV4 (or my older Sister's RAV4) the computer tried to >> accelerate >> the car back up to the set point speed as quickly as possible (the >> SO's RAV4 reacts violently in this situation). When the car jerked >> and >> started accelerating hard to get back to the set point speed, the >> driver reacted improperly because he thought the car was running >> wild. >> Actually the computer was trying to get back to the old set point >> as >> quickly as possible. Because the driver thought the car was running >> wild he jammed on the brakes. He did get his foot on the brake >> pedal, >> but he also inadvertently pressed on the accelerator pedal as well. >> So >> while he thought he was braking hard, he was also pressing on the >> accelerator. > > I don't see anything in the story about also pressing the > accelerator. I > think maybe somebody's assuming "facts not in evidence". Didn't you read the part where I said " Here is what I think may have happened..." I was postulating as to what might have happened. I am sure the person driving the car doesn't believe he had pressed both pedals at once..otherwise there would have been no story. If you remember the old Audi 5000 unintended acceleration case, it was eventually concluded that pressing both pedal inadvertently was the actual cause of the unintended accelration - although few if any of the people who had an accident becasue of the "unintended acceleration" ever admitted this was the case. However, once shift interlocks were insalled to prevent shifting the car into gear without pressing on the brake, the problem disappeared. I am thinking that if you pressed resume from a speed much lower than the set point speed and the car's cruise control jerked and/or accelrated roughly in an attempt to get back to the set point speed, a driver might panic and feel that the car was running away. As a response, the driver might accidentally (and unknowingly) press both pedals at the same time. If this happens, even though the cruise control disengaged, the acceleration continues because the driver's foot is pressing on both pedal. In fact, it might be worse - resulting in additional pressure on both pedals as the driver tries to control a car he feels is out of control. I have persoanlly done something similar when stopping at light...but knowing what had happened I did not compound the problem and nothing bad happened. Someone who gets confused and panics, might continue to press on both pedals. Just a theory.....it might be wrong, but I think it is possible. > At any rate, pressing the brake pedal is supposed to (required to?) > cut off > the cruise control. Clearly from what is said in the story, it > didn't. > That's grounds for a recall right there. Did you read my whole theory? One a paniced driver is pressing on both pedals at once, it doesn't matter whether the crusie contrl is engaged or not. Again, just a theory. No proof. But then I haven't seen any proof that the crusie control was at fault either. Ed
From: fred on 6 Nov 2009 16:25
=?UTF-8?B?SGFjaGlyb2t1IOODj+ODgeODreOCrw==?= <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in news:hd18sd$ddq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: > C. E. White wrote: >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >> news:pan.2009.11.06.03.44.33.372604(a)e86.GTS... >>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:05:22 -0800, john wrote: >> > DAMN! There's a reason we have BUS SERVICE in this country!!! > > Hitting the brake should have shut off the CC function. Sounds to me > like this guy should hand in his license or go for some more driver's > training. > Yes, without any actual investigative facts, it's starting to look to me like there was serious problems with the cruise control. After market self install is the phrase that comes to mind. Hardly a Toyota problem. |