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From: C. E. White on 20 Dec 2009 10:42

"Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9CE6B87BF238Ategger(a)208.90.168.18...
> Frank Rowe <r0we'south(a)bell'south.not> wrote in
> news:3maqi5l2hlbn8qkce0ujkm8mrs9be5e9es(a)4ax.com:
>
>> Brand new 2010 Camry, time for first oil change. Manual and oil cap
>> say "0W-20" Never heard of such a thing. Local Autozone has a 0W-20 in
>> Mobil 1 synthetic -at $7/quart. This makes my oil change (with filter)
>> cost $45+. Since we do 5K miles in 6 weeks, this is a notable expense
>> that I'd like to minimize.
>>
>> This leads to three questions:
>>
>> 1) Is there a _legitimate_ reason for 0W oil in this car? Or do they
>> just use it to get the extra 0.3 MPG needed for their sales claims?
>
>
>
> Not for sales claims, but for federal government CAFE regulations.
>
> And for cold-starting performance, which is probably important to you if
> you live in Idaho, Wyoming or Alaska. Or where Santa lives.
>
>
>>
>> 2) Is there a non-synthetic 0W20 grade oil, and where can I find it?
>
>
>
> Not available. Even the 5W-20 is part-synthetic.

Conventional 5W20 is availabel. See:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915464&contentId=6003410
http://www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-conventional
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/conventional-motor-oil/1

Ed



>
> Viscosities that low are not possible in road-going automotive engine oils
> without being at least part-synthetic.
>
>
>>
>> 3) What kind of trouble will I have if I use 5W-20 instead (avaiilabe
>> for 1/3 the price)?
>>
>
>
> No trouble at all. In fact Toyota themselves state that 5W-20 provides
> better engine protection than 0W-20 (see TSB EG018-06). Use 5W-20 and be
> happy.
>
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>

From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 20 Dec 2009 11:08
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:10:18 -0500, dr_jeff wrote:

>> For all - I _do_ change oil every 5K - in fact I do 3K on all my other
>> vehicles. I believe the definition of "severe service" per most owner
>> manuals really means "did you drive the car?"
>
> I have to respectfully disagree. You can believe what you want, but the
> engineers who design engines for a living disagree. You need to read the
> words, not what you want. The owner's manual clearly describes severe
> service. And if you don't do what the severe service says, you have normal
> service. Don't forget that the oils, machining of surfaces and metals have
> greatly improved over the last 20 years.

I'd say 834 miles a week is pretty severe! He's putting a year's worth of
mileage on the car in 14 weeks! Remember, "Normal service" is about 1,000
miles a MONTH! He's doing that in 10 days!

Realistically, a year's worth of mileage should be 18-24,000 miles. At one
time I was doing 35,000 miles a year. He's doing 24,000 miles in about 6.5
months.



From: mredd on 20 Dec 2009 09:16

I WAS ALWAYS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE numbers on the oil indicated
the lubricity(viscosity) of the oil ?

Now I understand that the numbers of 5w30 10w30 etc indicate the
viscosity of the oil.

But what concerns me is what viscosity does 0w20 have at the 0 point ?

None ? some ? or just what is going on here ?


--
mredd
Message origin: www.TRAVEL.com

From: Jeff Strickland on 20 Dec 2009 12:26

"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:wpednbmg65oC2bPWnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: 0W-20 oil?
>
>
>>
>> "Frank Rowe" <r0we'south(a)bell'south.not> wrote in message
>> news:3maqi5l2hlbn8qkce0ujkm8mrs9be5e9es(a)4ax.com...
>>> Brand new 2010 Camry, time for first oil change. Manual and oil cap
>>> say "0W-20" Never heard of such a thing. Local Autozone has a 0W-20 in
>>> Mobil 1 synthetic -at $7/quart. This makes my oil change (with filter)
>>> cost $45+. Since we do 5K miles in 6 weeks, this is a notable expense
>>> that I'd like to minimize.
>>>
>>> This leads to three questions:
>>>
>>> 1) Is there a _legitimate_ reason for 0W oil in this car? Or do they
>>> just use it to get the extra 0.3 MPG needed for their sales claims?
>>>
>>> 2) Is there a non-synthetic 0W20 grade oil, and where can I find it?
>>>
>>> 3) What kind of trouble will I have if I use 5W-20 instead (avaiilabe
>>> for 1/3 the price)?
>>>
>>
>> Read the manual, I'll bet the change interval is longer than 5000 miles.
>> I believe the 0w spec is for fuel standards. I see no reason you can't
>> use 5w instead.
>
> All the new Toyota's in my family (3 RAV4s and a Highlander) specify 5000
> mile oil changes and the oil change indicator is set for 5000 mile
> changes.
>
> The difference in fuel economy between 0W20 and 5W20 should be trival
> since once the engine is warmed up both have essentially the same
> viscosity. I suppose if you do a lot of cold starts in a very cold
> climate, or drive in a very, very cold climate, then the 0W20 might offer
> a slight advanage, but I doubt you'd ever measure your fuel economy with
> enough precision to detect the difference.
>
>

Agreed. And, if you _could_ measure the difference, then you could drive
"softer" with the 5w and make up the difference anyhow.




From: Tegger on 20 Dec 2009 13:47
"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in
news:IcadnU0hV85g2LPWnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com:

>
> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9CE6B87BF238Ategger(a)208.90.168.18...
>> Frank Rowe <r0we'south(a)bell'south.not> wrote in
>> news:3maqi5l2hlbn8qkce0ujkm8mrs9be5e9es(a)4ax.com:

>>>
>>> 2) Is there a non-synthetic 0W20 grade oil, and where can I find it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not available. Even the 5W-20 is part-synthetic.
>
> Conventional 5W20 is availabel. See:
>
> http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915464&co
> ntentId=6003410
> http://www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-conventional
> http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/conventio
> nal-motor-oil/1
>


Thanks for the correction. It's been a while since I checked.

I had the notion that the first 5W-20s were all part-synthetic.


--
Tegger

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