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From: Jeff Strickland on 19 Dec 2009 20:16

"Frank Rowe" <r0we'south(a)bell'south.not> wrote in message
news:3maqi5l2hlbn8qkce0ujkm8mrs9be5e9es(a)4ax.com...
> Brand new 2010 Camry, time for first oil change. Manual and oil cap
> say "0W-20" Never heard of such a thing. Local Autozone has a 0W-20 in
> Mobil 1 synthetic -at $7/quart. This makes my oil change (with filter)
> cost $45+. Since we do 5K miles in 6 weeks, this is a notable expense
> that I'd like to minimize.
>
> This leads to three questions:
>
> 1) Is there a _legitimate_ reason for 0W oil in this car? Or do they
> just use it to get the extra 0.3 MPG needed for their sales claims?
>
> 2) Is there a non-synthetic 0W20 grade oil, and where can I find it?
>
> 3) What kind of trouble will I have if I use 5W-20 instead (avaiilabe
> for 1/3 the price)?
>

Read the manual, I'll bet the change interval is longer than 5000 miles. I
believe the 0w spec is for fuel standards. I see no reason you can't use 5w
instead.

Having said that, read the manual. You might want to consider a change after
the warranty runs out, or at least after you've run out of payment coupons.






From: Frank Rowe on 20 Dec 2009 09:03
Thanks for the feedback, I now have something to go on.

For all - I _do_ change oil every 5K - in fact I do 3K on all my other
vehicles. I believe the definition of "severe service" per most owner
manuals really means "did you drive the car?"

For dr_jeff - I made up the 0.3; I'm curious what teh true difference
is between 5W20 and 0W20 in normal service - is there any literature
on the subject? I'd like to do a cost-benefit calc on it. If it's
truly only 2-3 gal of gas per oil change, its cheaper to use the 5W20
and save teh $4/quart price difference.

For Tegger - I live in Ga, so truly cold starting isn't much of a
concern. Besides, when I lived in PA, I drove a beater with 20W-40 oil
and no notable problems.
THanks for the TSB reference, I'll keep that in mind.

Fort In2dadark: I _do_ have a cartridge filter ($10-13 depending on
brand). Same as the Highlander I traded for this car, so I'm used to
the change process. Never did digest why a naked filter costs 2-3 x
the price of one with a full enclosure.

For Keff Strickland - I did read the manual, and it had words to this
effect:
"you can use 5W-20 in a pinch but switch back to 0W20 at the next
change".
No predictions of doom, but definitely not encouraging the use of the
5W oil either. If the primary reason is for fuel economy, then I'll do
a cost analysis & decide on that basis.

..


From: dr_jeff on 20 Dec 2009 10:10
Frank Rowe wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback, I now have something to go on.
>
> For all - I _do_ change oil every 5K - in fact I do 3K on all my other
> vehicles. I believe the definition of "severe service" per most owner
> manuals really means "did you drive the car?"

I have to respectfully disagree. You can believe what you want, but the
engineers who design engines for a living disagree. You need to read the
words, not what you want. The owner's manual clearly describes severe
service. And if you don't do what the severe service says, you have
normal service. Don't forget that the oils, machining of surfaces and
metals have greatly improved over the last 20 years.

> For dr_jeff - I made up the 0.3; I'm curious what teh true difference
> is between 5W20 and 0W20 in normal service - is there any literature
> on the subject? I'd like to do a cost-benefit calc on it. If it's
> truly only 2-3 gal of gas per oil change, its cheaper to use the 5W20
> and save teh $4/quart price difference.

I don't know of any scientific or technical literature on the subject.
However, if you're using less fuel because of less friction, I think
that means less wear and tear on the engine, too.

I say "I think" because it there could be more wear and tear on the
engine at sometimes than with higher viscosity oil.

Jeff

> For Tegger - I live in Ga, so truly cold starting isn't much of a
> concern. Besides, when I lived in PA, I drove a beater with 20W-40 oil
> and no notable problems.
> THanks for the TSB reference, I'll keep that in mind.
>
> Fort In2dadark: I _do_ have a cartridge filter ($10-13 depending on
> brand). Same as the Highlander I traded for this car, so I'm used to
> the change process. Never did digest why a naked filter costs 2-3 x
> the price of one with a full enclosure.
>
> For Keff Strickland - I did read the manual, and it had words to this
> effect:
> "you can use 5W-20 in a pinch but switch back to 0W20 at the next
> change".
> No predictions of doom, but definitely not encouraging the use of the
> 5W oil either. If the primary reason is for fuel economy, then I'll do
> a cost analysis & decide on that basis.
>
> .
>
>
From: C. E. White on 20 Dec 2009 10:29

"dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
news:Nr-dnbtC2_yuxLDWnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
> Frank Rowe wrote:
>> Brand new 2010 Camry, time for first oil change. Manual and oil cap
>> say "0W-20" Never heard of such a thing. Local Autozone has a 0W-20 in
>> Mobil 1 synthetic -at $7/quart. This makes my oil change (with filter)
>> cost $45+. Since we do 5K miles in 6 weeks, this is a notable expense
>> that I'd like to minimize.
>>
>> This leads to three questions:
>>
>> 1) Is there a _legitimate_ reason for 0W oil in this car? Or do they
>> just use it to get the extra 0.3 MPG needed for their sales claims?
>
> What 0.3 mpg? How did you come up with this figure?
>
> The 0W-20 motor oil will improve your mileage, but about the amount
> stated. They don't it for sales claims, but CAFE.
>
>> 2) Is there a non-synthetic 0W20 grade oil, and where can I find it?
>>
>> 3) What kind of trouble will I have if I use 5W-20 instead (avaiilabe
>> for 1/3 the price)?
>
>
> Saving money but using an extra 2 or 3 gallons of gas per oil change.

Once the engine warms up the 0W20 and the 5W20 oil have essentially the same
viscosity. Unless you are doing a lot of cold starts or driving in a very
very cold climate, there is no reason to expect any significant difference
in fuel economy between 0W20 and 5W20.

I have used both in the SO's RAV4. In a warmer climate like North Carolina,
I doubt there is any advantage to the 0W20 over the 5W20. Maybe you might
get a little better oil flow on cold mornings, but I doubt there is any
reason to care - in a warmer climate. Now maybe in a colder place it would
be better to have the 0W20.

Ed


From: C. E. White on 20 Dec 2009 10:36

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: 0W-20 oil?


>
> "Frank Rowe" <r0we'south(a)bell'south.not> wrote in message
> news:3maqi5l2hlbn8qkce0ujkm8mrs9be5e9es(a)4ax.com...
>> Brand new 2010 Camry, time for first oil change. Manual and oil cap
>> say "0W-20" Never heard of such a thing. Local Autozone has a 0W-20 in
>> Mobil 1 synthetic -at $7/quart. This makes my oil change (with filter)
>> cost $45+. Since we do 5K miles in 6 weeks, this is a notable expense
>> that I'd like to minimize.
>>
>> This leads to three questions:
>>
>> 1) Is there a _legitimate_ reason for 0W oil in this car? Or do they
>> just use it to get the extra 0.3 MPG needed for their sales claims?
>>
>> 2) Is there a non-synthetic 0W20 grade oil, and where can I find it?
>>
>> 3) What kind of trouble will I have if I use 5W-20 instead (avaiilabe
>> for 1/3 the price)?
>>
>
> Read the manual, I'll bet the change interval is longer than 5000 miles. I
> believe the 0w spec is for fuel standards. I see no reason you can't use
> 5w instead.

All the new Toyota's in my family (3 RAV4s and a Highlander) specify 5000
mile oil changes and the oil change indicator is set for 5000 mile changes.

The difference in fuel economy between 0W20 and 5W20 should be trival since
once the engine is warmed up both have essentially the same viscosity. I
suppose if you do a lot of cold starts in a very cold climate, or drive in a
very, very cold climate, then the 0W20 might offer a slight advanage, but I
doubt you'd ever measure your fuel economy with enough precision to detect
the difference.

Ed

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