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From: C. E. White on 8 Feb 2010 10:00

"Canuck57" <Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
news:NXJan.72107$U83.4469(a)newsfe10.iad...

> Does not mater what the administration wants to do to pick on
> Toyota. Fact remains Toyota came clean and GM & Ford did not until
> it became public.

What did Ford and GM have to come clean about? I think ever
manufacturer has had complaints of sudden acceleration. Most have
tried to address the problem. The NHTSA Database is availabel at
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ . You can download the
compelte complaint database if you wish.

Since I own a 2007 Ford Fusion, I was interested to see what sort of
acceleration problems were listed against that model. There were
several complaints that the accelerator pedal was "touchy" or hard to
control. There were no complaints that the car ran away in the same
manner as is claimed for some Toyota models. Here are all the
"accelerator control" complaints I saw for a 2007 Ford Fusion:

THE VEHICLE RESPONSE TO THE ACCELERATOR IS UNPREDICTABLE AND ALWAYS
DELAYED. SOMETIMES THE CAR WILL INTERPRET A SMALL QUICK DEPRESSION OF
THE ACCELERATOR THE SAME AS FLOORING THE ACCELERATOR. THERE IS ALWAYS
A DELAY OF TWO TO THREE SECONDS BEFORE IT RESPONDS AT ALL. THE SAME
ACTION CAN RESULT IN WIDELY VARYING RESPONSES OF THE ENGINE AND
TRANSMISSION, APPARENTLY DEPENDING ON THE TEMPERATURE OF THE AIR AND
ENGINE. THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY TOUCHY AND SEEMS TO USE ONLY A SMALL
PORTION OF THE MOVEMENT. THAT COUPLED WITH THE TRANSMISSION CONSTANTLY
SHIFTING TO SET THE ENGINE SPEED AT NEAR IDLE IN ALL BUT FREEWAY
DRIVING MAKES MANUALLY CONTROLLING THE SPEED WITHIN 5 MILES PER HOUR
WHEN NEAR A SHIFT POINT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. THE CONSTANT SHIFTING AND
REFUSAL TO SLOW DOWN WHEN THE ACCELERATOR IS RELEASED MAKES IT
IMPOSSIBLE TO MANUALLY CONTROL THE SPEED OF THE VEHICLE ACCURATELY ON
HILLY ROADS. THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROBLEM, NOT A ONE DAY EVENT. *TR

THE VEHICLE DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMANDS OF THE DRIVER IN A TIMELY
FASHION AND THE RESPONSE IS UNPREDICTABLE. WHILE WAITING TO MAKE A
LEFT TURN FROM A FOUR LANE UNDIVIDED CITY STREET, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSED
IN FRONT OF ME IN A CROSSWALK. AFTER THE PEDESTRIAN HAD CROSSED, I
PROCEEDED TO MAKE A LEFT TURN BUT THE PEDESTRIAN DID NOT STOP.
INSTEAD, HE MADE A SUDDEN TURN TO HIS RIGHT AND PROCEEDED ACROSS THE
CROSSWALK WITHOUT LOOKING. I STOPPED PART WAY ACROSS THE INSIDE LANE
OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC. THE PEDESTRIAN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
CROSSWALK, LOOKED AT ME AND WAVED WHILE ONCOMING TRAFFIC APPROACHED.
HE THEN PROCEEDED THE REST OF THE WAY ACROSS THE CROSSWALK. IN ORDER
TO AVOID A HEAD ON COLLISION FROM A CAR THAT TURNED LEFT INTO THE
ONCOMING INSIDE LANE AND RACED TOWARD ME, I GAVE THE ACCELERATOR A
QUICK NUDGE PART WAY DOWN. THE VEHICLE REDLINED THE ENGINE AND BURNED
RUBBER. THE SAME INPUT FROM THE DRIVER TWO DAYS BEFORE WHEN IT WAS
COLD WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A SLUGGISH RESPONSE. I RELEASED THE
ACCELERATOR, AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO SPIN THE TIRES ON THE DRY
PAVEMENT, PROPELLING THE CAR FORWARD TOWARD THE PEDESTRIAN WHO WAS
ABOUT ONE STEP FROM THE SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. I
BARELY MANAGED TO STEER THE VEHICLE AWAY FROM THE PEDESTRIAN AND
FINISH THE TURN WITH MY FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR. IN GENERAL, THE
VEHICLE DOES NOT SLOW DOWN FOR QUITE SOME TIME WHEN I RELEASE THE
ACCELERATOR. THE ONLY WAY TO SLOW DOWN IN A TIMELY MANNER IS WITH THE
BRAKES. *TR

THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 FORD FUSION. WHILE DRIVING 1 MPH IN REVERSE,
THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL INTERTWINED WITH HER
FOOT AND SANDAL. AS A RESULT, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AND CRASHED INTO
THE REAR DRIVER SIDE BUMPER OF ANOTHER VEHICLE. AS OF SEPTEMBER 28,
2007, THE DEALER AND MANUFACTURER HAD NOT INSPECTED THE VEHICLE. THE
CONTACT FELT THAT THE DESIGN OF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAUSED THE
FAILURE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 27,000 AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS
28,500.

None of these incidents resulted in any injury and only one involved
property damage (the lady who was backing up and got her foot tangled
in the accelerator pedal). NHTSA has not opened an investigation
(probably becasue the low number of complaints and the lack of any
injuries). I persoanlly have never had any accelerator pedal issues
with my Fusion. I do think the accelerator response can be "lazy" at
times (particualrly the transmission downshift response) but I've
never had any sort of run away or sudden acceleration. THe cruise
control is the best I've ever had (it does a much better job of
mainting a constant speed than I can with the accelerator).

I looked up the complaints against 2007 Toyota Camry - there were
many. Here is a document related to the floor mat concern:

http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2007/EA/INME-EA07010-26873P.pdf

There were many other sudden acceleration complaints cleary not
related to the floor mat concern. Here are a few typical complaints of
all tyoes (but only a few):

I AM THE OWNER OF A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY THAT IS PART OF BOTH RECALLS FOR
THE FLOORMAT ISSUE AND THE ACCELARTION ISSUE. WHEN I FIRST PURCHASED
MY CAR IN AUGUST 2007, I IMMEDIATELY NOTICED ACCELARTION PROBLEMS AND
CALLED THE DEALERSHIP ABOUT IT. THE CAR WAS BROUGHT IT AND REPAIRS
WERE MADE, HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM CONTINUED TO EXIST AND I WAS TOLD THAT
IT WAS NOTHING SERIOUS. IN FEBRUARY 2008, WE WERE INVOLVED IN AN AUTO
ACCIDENT IN MY VEHICLE WITH OUR TEENAGE DAUGHTGER AN A FRIEND. WE WERE
COMING TO A STOP LIGHT AND THERE WAS A CAR IN FRONT OF US AND OUR CAR
CONTINUED TO ACCELARATE AND WE HIT THE BACK OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF US.
THERE WAS SEVERE FRONT END DAMAGE TO MY VEHICLE, BUT THANKFULLY, NO
REALLY BODILY INJURY TO THE PASSENGERS. AFTER PLACING A CALL TO THE
DEALERSHIP AFTER THE ACCIDENT AND EXPLAINING THE ACCELERATION ISSUE TO
THEM THAT I BELIEVE WAS THE REASON FOR THE ACCIDENT, I WAS TOLD THAT
IT COULD NOT BE THE ISSUE AND THAT MY INITIAL ACCELERATION ISSUE HAD
ALREADY BEEN FIXED. I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN THAT ARE IN MY CAR EVERYDAY
AND I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN MY VEHICLE. MY FLOORMAT ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN
FIXED AND NEITHER HAS THE PEDAL ISSUE. I AM EXTREMELY DISSAPOINTED
WITH THE WAY THIS SITUATION IS BEING HANDLED, ESPEICALLY SINCE I FIRST
NOTICED THE ISSUE RIGHT AFTER THE PURCHASE OF MY CAR AND I WAS ASSURED
THAT IT WAS FIXED. PLEASE ADVISE. THANKS

PROBLEM WITH ACCELERATOR STICKING AT HIGH SPEED (70 MPH); CONSIDERABLE
LAG BETWEEN REMOVING FOOT FROM GAS PEDAL AND DECECELERATION. REQUIRED
HARD BRAKING TO AVOID HITTING ANOTHER VEHICLE.

WHILE DRIVING 2007 CAMRY ON LEVEL ROADWAY WITH CRUISE CONTROL ON AT 70
MPH, TRANSMISSION WILL SUDDENLY DOWNSHIFT SEVERAL GEARS CAUSING CAR TO
ACCELERATE AGGRESSIVELY AND ROCKET FORWARD. DURING ONE SUCH INSTANCE
MY CAR LURCHED FORWARD AND ALMOST DROVE UNDER A TRACTOR TRAILER THAT
WAS TRAVELING IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS AN INTERMITTENT PHENOMENON. WAS
REPORTED TO TOYOTA ON 10/01/07. AN APPOINTMENT WAS SET UP FOR LOCAL
DEALER TO CHECK OUT PROBLEM. AFTER TOYOTA HAD THE CAR FOR FULL DAY,
THEY RESPONDED THAT THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. UPON PICKING
UP THE CAR I FOUND THAT THEY HAD NOT DRIVEN THE CAR OFF THE DEALER
LOT. UPON QUESTIONING THE SERVICE MANAGER, HOW THEY EXPECTED TO
DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT ACTUALLY DRIVING THE CAR, HE BEGAN
SCREAMING AND WAS EXTREMELY RUDE. FINALLY, HE AGREED TO AN ADDITIONAL
APPOINTMENT WITH A 'TECH PERSON' THE FOLLOWING WEEK. THE PROBLEM DID
NOT OCCUR WHILE THE TECH PERSON WAS RIDING IN THE CAR. THERE WAS NO
FURTHER FOLLOW UP TESTING BY TOYOTA. I WILL NO LONGER USE THE CRUISE
CONTROL WHILE DRIVING THIS CAMRY. NOTE: THIS CAR HAD IT'S 'SOFTWARE'
UPDATED PREVIOUSLY DUE TO SLUGGISH ACCELERATION IN TRAFFIC.

THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY SLOW TO RESPOND TO PEDEL ACTION. AT VARIOUS
TIMES SINCE PURCHASING THE CAR NEW IN SEPTEMBER 2006, THE CAR WILL NOT
ACCELERATE FOR 4 TO 5 SECONDS AFTER THE PEDAL IS PUSHED ALMOST CAUSING
NUMEROUS ACCIDENTS. THE DEALER REPLACED THE VALVE BODY AND
REPROGRAMMED THE TRANSMISSION, BUT THE PROBLEM STILL REMAINS. DEALER
SAYS THEY HAVE DONE ALL THAT TOYOTA HAS ALLOWED THEM TO DO.

THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY . THE CONTACT STATED THAT WHEN
DRIVING AT 60 MPH WHEN WITHOUT ANY WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PETAL HIT
THE FLOOR AND THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN . THE CONTACT APPLIED
THE BRAKES WITH EXTREME PRESSURE BUT THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
ACCELERATE. THE CONTACT PUT THE VEHICLE IN NEUTRAL AND PULLED TO THE
SIDE OF THE ROAD AND TURNED THE VEHICLE OFF. AFTER 5 MINUTES THE
CONTACT RESTARTED THE VEHICLE AND THE FAILURE OCCURRED ONCE AGAIN.THE
PETAL HIT THE FLOOR TRAVELING 70 MPH. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE
DEALER AND WAS TRADED.THE DEALER STATED THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG
WITH THE VEHICLE. NO REPAIRS WERE DONE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 17000.

THE CONTACT OWNED A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. SHE STATED WHILE TRAVELING AT
SPEEDS OF 55 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT WARNING. SHE
STATED SHE COULD FEEL THE POWER OF THE VEHICLE PULLING AT SPEEDS OF 80
MPH. SHE SEARCHED THE FLOORBOARD OF THE VEHICLE TO ENSURE THERE WAS
NOTHING OBSTRUCTING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, THERE WAS NOT. SHE
CONTINUED TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL TO THE FLOORBOARD, TO NO AVAIL.
SHE WAS THEN FACED WITH HAVING TO TAKE AN OFF RAMP AND SHE CRASHED
INTO THE SIDE OF A PASSING SEMI-TRUCK AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
ACCELERATE AFTER CRASHING INTO THE TRUCK. SHE THEN MADE THE DECISION
TO CRASH INTO A CHAIN LINK FENCE IN AN ATTEMPT TO STOP THE VEHICLE.
THE VEHICLE CAME TO A STOP ONCE IT BECAME ENTANGLED IN THE CHAIN
FENCE. THE POLICE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE BUT NO REPORT WAS FILED BECAUSE
THERE WERE NO INJURIES, AS STATED BY THE OFFICER AT THE SCENE. THE
VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE
UNKNOWN

I HAVE A 2007 CAMRY. TWO YEARS AGO I EXPERIENCED FULL SPEED
ACCELERATION WHILE DRIVING ON THE EXPRESSWAY. IT WAS VERY SCARY I PUT
FULL FORCE ON THE BRAKES BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP I DROVE ON THE SHOULDER
AND FORCE THE GEARS INTO PARK. I CALLED THE TOYOTA DEALER BUT THEY
KEPT SAYING CAMRY DOES NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM. I CALLED ON NUMEROUS
OCCASION AND WANTED THEM TO RECORD THE INCIDENT BUT THEY WOULDN'T.
HAVING EXPERIENCE THIS TWO YEARS AGO I HAVE BEEN SO TERRIFIED TO DRIVE
THE CAR I DRIVE SO SLOWLY NOW. THEY JUST IGNORED ME

Those are just a few of the many complaints of sudden acceleration
against a singel year/model (2007 Camry).

Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota
Camry (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67
compliants of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48
complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints of
all types. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all sorts.
The 2007 Honda Accord generated 119 complaints of all sorts

Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times the
number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival? Even assumuing
that the Camry can be expected to generate more complaints becasue of
the large number of sales, it is hard to see how a quality vehicle
would generate 10 times the number of complaints based on even twice
the sales of the domestic competitors.

Ed

Ed






From: Mike Hunter on 8 Feb 2010 10:51
(Cross postings belated, automatically)

Our friend Canuck57 comment is just one more of the YABUT attempt to deflect
comment on Toyotas CURRENT massive 5.4 million world wide recall problem


"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hkp9fo$siv$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Canuck57" <Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:NXJan.72107$U83.4469(a)newsfe10.iad...
>
>> Does not mater what the administration wants to do to pick on Toyota.
>> Fact remains Toyota came clean and GM & Ford did not until it became
>> public.
>
> What did Ford and GM have to come clean about? I think ever manufacturer
> has had complaints of sudden acceleration. Most have tried to address the
> problem. The NHTSA Database is availabel at
> http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ . You can download the compelte
> complaint database if you wish.
>
> Since I own a 2007 Ford Fusion, I was interested to see what sort of
> acceleration problems were listed against that model. There were several
> complaints that the accelerator pedal was "touchy" or hard to control.
> There were no complaints that the car ran away in the same manner as is
> claimed for some Toyota models. Here are all the "accelerator control"
> complaints I saw for a 2007 Ford Fusion:
>
> THE VEHICLE RESPONSE TO THE ACCELERATOR IS UNPREDICTABLE AND ALWAYS
> DELAYED. SOMETIMES THE CAR WILL INTERPRET A SMALL QUICK DEPRESSION OF THE
> ACCELERATOR THE SAME AS FLOORING THE ACCELERATOR. THERE IS ALWAYS A DELAY
> OF TWO TO THREE SECONDS BEFORE IT RESPONDS AT ALL. THE SAME ACTION CAN
> RESULT IN WIDELY VARYING RESPONSES OF THE ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION,
> APPARENTLY DEPENDING ON THE TEMPERATURE OF THE AIR AND ENGINE. THE
> ACCELERATOR IS VERY TOUCHY AND SEEMS TO USE ONLY A SMALL PORTION OF THE
> MOVEMENT. THAT COUPLED WITH THE TRANSMISSION CONSTANTLY SHIFTING TO SET
> THE ENGINE SPEED AT NEAR IDLE IN ALL BUT FREEWAY DRIVING MAKES MANUALLY
> CONTROLLING THE SPEED WITHIN 5 MILES PER HOUR WHEN NEAR A SHIFT POINT
> ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. THE CONSTANT SHIFTING AND REFUSAL TO SLOW DOWN WHEN THE
> ACCELERATOR IS RELEASED MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO MANUALLY CONTROL THE SPEED
> OF THE VEHICLE ACCURATELY ON HILLY ROADS. THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROBLEM,
> NOT A ONE DAY EVENT. *TR
>
> THE VEHICLE DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMANDS OF THE DRIVER IN A TIMELY
> FASHION AND THE RESPONSE IS UNPREDICTABLE. WHILE WAITING TO MAKE A LEFT
> TURN FROM A FOUR LANE UNDIVIDED CITY STREET, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSED IN FRONT
> OF ME IN A CROSSWALK. AFTER THE PEDESTRIAN HAD CROSSED, I PROCEEDED TO
> MAKE A LEFT TURN BUT THE PEDESTRIAN DID NOT STOP. INSTEAD, HE MADE A
> SUDDEN TURN TO HIS RIGHT AND PROCEEDED ACROSS THE CROSSWALK WITHOUT
> LOOKING. I STOPPED PART WAY ACROSS THE INSIDE LANE OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC.
> THE PEDESTRIAN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROSSWALK, LOOKED AT ME AND
> WAVED WHILE ONCOMING TRAFFIC APPROACHED. HE THEN PROCEEDED THE REST OF THE
> WAY ACROSS THE CROSSWALK. IN ORDER TO AVOID A HEAD ON COLLISION FROM A CAR
> THAT TURNED LEFT INTO THE ONCOMING INSIDE LANE AND RACED TOWARD ME, I GAVE
> THE ACCELERATOR A QUICK NUDGE PART WAY DOWN. THE VEHICLE REDLINED THE
> ENGINE AND BURNED RUBBER. THE SAME INPUT FROM THE DRIVER TWO DAYS BEFORE
> WHEN IT WAS COLD WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A SLUGGISH RESPONSE. I RELEASED
> THE ACCELERATOR, AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO SPIN THE TIRES ON THE DRY
> PAVEMENT, PROPELLING THE CAR FORWARD TOWARD THE PEDESTRIAN WHO WAS ABOUT
> ONE STEP FROM THE SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. I BARELY
> MANAGED TO STEER THE VEHICLE AWAY FROM THE PEDESTRIAN AND FINISH THE TURN
> WITH MY FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR. IN GENERAL, THE VEHICLE DOES NOT SLOW
> DOWN FOR QUITE SOME TIME WHEN I RELEASE THE ACCELERATOR. THE ONLY WAY TO
> SLOW DOWN IN A TIMELY MANNER IS WITH THE BRAKES. *TR
>
> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 FORD FUSION. WHILE DRIVING 1 MPH IN REVERSE, THE
> CONTACT STATED THAT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL INTERTWINED WITH HER FOOT AND
> SANDAL. AS A RESULT, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AND CRASHED INTO THE REAR
> DRIVER SIDE BUMPER OF ANOTHER VEHICLE. AS OF SEPTEMBER 28, 2007, THE
> DEALER AND MANUFACTURER HAD NOT INSPECTED THE VEHICLE. THE CONTACT FELT
> THAT THE DESIGN OF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAUSED THE FAILURE. THE FAILURE
> MILEAGE WAS 27,000 AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 28,500.
>
> None of these incidents resulted in any injury and only one involved
> property damage (the lady who was backing up and got her foot tangled in
> the accelerator pedal). NHTSA has not opened an investigation (probably
> becasue the low number of complaints and the lack of any injuries). I
> persoanlly have never had any accelerator pedal issues with my Fusion. I
> do think the accelerator response can be "lazy" at times (particualrly the
> transmission downshift response) but I've never had any sort of run away
> or sudden acceleration. THe cruise control is the best I've ever had (it
> does a much better job of mainting a constant speed than I can with the
> accelerator).
>
> I looked up the complaints against 2007 Toyota Camry - there were many.
> Here is a document related to the floor mat concern:
>
> http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2007/EA/INME-EA07010-26873P.pdf
>
> There were many other sudden acceleration complaints cleary not related to
> the floor mat concern. Here are a few typical complaints of all tyoes (but
> only a few):
>
> I AM THE OWNER OF A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY THAT IS PART OF BOTH RECALLS FOR THE
> FLOORMAT ISSUE AND THE ACCELARTION ISSUE. WHEN I FIRST PURCHASED MY CAR IN
> AUGUST 2007, I IMMEDIATELY NOTICED ACCELARTION PROBLEMS AND CALLED THE
> DEALERSHIP ABOUT IT. THE CAR WAS BROUGHT IT AND REPAIRS WERE MADE,
> HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM CONTINUED TO EXIST AND I WAS TOLD THAT IT WAS NOTHING
> SERIOUS. IN FEBRUARY 2008, WE WERE INVOLVED IN AN AUTO ACCIDENT IN MY
> VEHICLE WITH OUR TEENAGE DAUGHTGER AN A FRIEND. WE WERE COMING TO A STOP
> LIGHT AND THERE WAS A CAR IN FRONT OF US AND OUR CAR CONTINUED TO
> ACCELARATE AND WE HIT THE BACK OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF US. THERE WAS SEVERE
> FRONT END DAMAGE TO MY VEHICLE, BUT THANKFULLY, NO REALLY BODILY INJURY TO
> THE PASSENGERS. AFTER PLACING A CALL TO THE DEALERSHIP AFTER THE ACCIDENT
> AND EXPLAINING THE ACCELERATION ISSUE TO THEM THAT I BELIEVE WAS THE
> REASON FOR THE ACCIDENT, I WAS TOLD THAT IT COULD NOT BE THE ISSUE AND
> THAT MY INITIAL ACCELERATION ISSUE HAD ALREADY BEEN FIXED. I HAVE FOUR
> CHILDREN THAT ARE IN MY CAR EVERYDAY AND I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN MY VEHICLE.
> MY FLOORMAT ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN FIXED AND NEITHER HAS THE PEDAL ISSUE. I AM
> EXTREMELY DISSAPOINTED WITH THE WAY THIS SITUATION IS BEING HANDLED,
> ESPEICALLY SINCE I FIRST NOTICED THE ISSUE RIGHT AFTER THE PURCHASE OF MY
> CAR AND I WAS ASSURED THAT IT WAS FIXED. PLEASE ADVISE. THANKS
>
> PROBLEM WITH ACCELERATOR STICKING AT HIGH SPEED (70 MPH); CONSIDERABLE LAG
> BETWEEN REMOVING FOOT FROM GAS PEDAL AND DECECELERATION. REQUIRED HARD
> BRAKING TO AVOID HITTING ANOTHER VEHICLE.
>
> WHILE DRIVING 2007 CAMRY ON LEVEL ROADWAY WITH CRUISE CONTROL ON AT 70
> MPH, TRANSMISSION WILL SUDDENLY DOWNSHIFT SEVERAL GEARS CAUSING CAR TO
> ACCELERATE AGGRESSIVELY AND ROCKET FORWARD. DURING ONE SUCH INSTANCE MY
> CAR LURCHED FORWARD AND ALMOST DROVE UNDER A TRACTOR TRAILER THAT WAS
> TRAVELING IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS AN INTERMITTENT PHENOMENON. WAS REPORTED
> TO TOYOTA ON 10/01/07. AN APPOINTMENT WAS SET UP FOR LOCAL DEALER TO CHECK
> OUT PROBLEM. AFTER TOYOTA HAD THE CAR FOR FULL DAY, THEY RESPONDED THAT
> THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. UPON PICKING UP THE CAR I FOUND THAT
> THEY HAD NOT DRIVEN THE CAR OFF THE DEALER LOT. UPON QUESTIONING THE
> SERVICE MANAGER, HOW THEY EXPECTED TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT
> ACTUALLY DRIVING THE CAR, HE BEGAN SCREAMING AND WAS EXTREMELY RUDE.
> FINALLY, HE AGREED TO AN ADDITIONAL APPOINTMENT WITH A 'TECH PERSON' THE
> FOLLOWING WEEK. THE PROBLEM DID NOT OCCUR WHILE THE TECH PERSON WAS RIDING
> IN THE CAR. THERE WAS NO FURTHER FOLLOW UP TESTING BY TOYOTA. I WILL NO
> LONGER USE THE CRUISE CONTROL WHILE DRIVING THIS CAMRY. NOTE: THIS CAR HAD
> IT'S 'SOFTWARE' UPDATED PREVIOUSLY DUE TO SLUGGISH ACCELERATION IN
> TRAFFIC.
>
> THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY SLOW TO RESPOND TO PEDEL ACTION. AT VARIOUS TIMES
> SINCE PURCHASING THE CAR NEW IN SEPTEMBER 2006, THE CAR WILL NOT
> ACCELERATE FOR 4 TO 5 SECONDS AFTER THE PEDAL IS PUSHED ALMOST CAUSING
> NUMEROUS ACCIDENTS. THE DEALER REPLACED THE VALVE BODY AND REPROGRAMMED
> THE TRANSMISSION, BUT THE PROBLEM STILL REMAINS. DEALER SAYS THEY HAVE
> DONE ALL THAT TOYOTA HAS ALLOWED THEM TO DO.
>
> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY . THE CONTACT STATED THAT WHEN
> DRIVING AT 60 MPH WHEN WITHOUT ANY WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PETAL HIT THE
> FLOOR AND THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN . THE CONTACT APPLIED THE
> BRAKES WITH EXTREME PRESSURE BUT THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE. THE
> CONTACT PUT THE VEHICLE IN NEUTRAL AND PULLED TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND
> TURNED THE VEHICLE OFF. AFTER 5 MINUTES THE CONTACT RESTARTED THE VEHICLE
> AND THE FAILURE OCCURRED ONCE AGAIN.THE PETAL HIT THE FLOOR TRAVELING 70
> MPH. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALER AND WAS TRADED.THE DEALER STATED
> THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE VEHICLE. NO REPAIRS WERE DONE. THE
> FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 17000.
>
> THE CONTACT OWNED A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. SHE STATED WHILE TRAVELING AT
> SPEEDS OF 55 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT WARNING. SHE
> STATED SHE COULD FEEL THE POWER OF THE VEHICLE PULLING AT SPEEDS OF 80
> MPH. SHE SEARCHED THE FLOORBOARD OF THE VEHICLE TO ENSURE THERE WAS
> NOTHING OBSTRUCTING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, THERE WAS NOT. SHE CONTINUED TO
> DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL TO THE FLOORBOARD, TO NO AVAIL. SHE WAS THEN FACED
> WITH HAVING TO TAKE AN OFF RAMP AND SHE CRASHED INTO THE SIDE OF A PASSING
> SEMI-TRUCK AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE AFTER CRASHING INTO THE
> TRUCK. SHE THEN MADE THE DECISION TO CRASH INTO A CHAIN LINK FENCE IN AN
> ATTEMPT TO STOP THE VEHICLE. THE VEHICLE CAME TO A STOP ONCE IT BECAME
> ENTANGLED IN THE CHAIN FENCE. THE POLICE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE BUT NO
> REPORT WAS FILED BECAUSE THERE WERE NO INJURIES, AS STATED BY THE OFFICER
> AT THE SCENE. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT
> MILEAGES WERE UNKNOWN
>
> I HAVE A 2007 CAMRY. TWO YEARS AGO I EXPERIENCED FULL SPEED ACCELERATION
> WHILE DRIVING ON THE EXPRESSWAY. IT WAS VERY SCARY I PUT FULL FORCE ON THE
> BRAKES BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP I DROVE ON THE SHOULDER AND FORCE THE GEARS
> INTO PARK. I CALLED THE TOYOTA DEALER BUT THEY KEPT SAYING CAMRY DOES NOT
> HAVE THAT PROBLEM. I CALLED ON NUMEROUS OCCASION AND WANTED THEM TO RECORD
> THE INCIDENT BUT THEY WOULDN'T. HAVING EXPERIENCE THIS TWO YEARS AGO I
> HAVE BEEN SO TERRIFIED TO DRIVE THE CAR I DRIVE SO SLOWLY NOW. THEY JUST
> IGNORED ME
>
> Those are just a few of the many complaints of sudden acceleration against
> a singel year/model (2007 Camry).
>
> Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota Camry
> (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67 compliants
> of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48 complaints of all
> sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints of all types. The 2007
> Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Honda Accord
> generated 119 complaints of all sorts
>
> Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times the
> number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival? Even assumuing that
> the Camry can be expected to generate more complaints becasue of the large
> number of sales, it is hard to see how a quality vehicle would generate 10
> times the number of complaints based on even twice the sales of the
> domestic competitors.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>


From: jim beam on 8 Feb 2010 22:58
On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "Canuck57"<Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:NXJan.72107$U83.4469(a)newsfe10.iad...
>
>> Does not mater what the administration wants to do to pick on
>> Toyota. Fact remains Toyota came clean and GM& Ford did not until
>> it became public.
>
> What did Ford and GM have to come clean about? I think ever
> manufacturer has had complaints of sudden acceleration. Most have
> tried to address the problem. The NHTSA Database is availabel at
> http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ . You can download the
> compelte complaint database if you wish.
>
> Since I own a 2007 Ford Fusion, I was interested to see what sort of
> acceleration problems were listed against that model. There were
> several complaints that the accelerator pedal was "touchy" or hard to
> control. There were no complaints that the car ran away in the same
> manner as is claimed for some Toyota models. Here are all the
> "accelerator control" complaints I saw for a 2007 Ford Fusion:
>
> THE VEHICLE RESPONSE TO THE ACCELERATOR IS UNPREDICTABLE AND ALWAYS
> DELAYED. SOMETIMES THE CAR WILL INTERPRET A SMALL QUICK DEPRESSION OF
> THE ACCELERATOR THE SAME AS FLOORING THE ACCELERATOR. THERE IS ALWAYS
> A DELAY OF TWO TO THREE SECONDS BEFORE IT RESPONDS AT ALL. THE SAME
> ACTION CAN RESULT IN WIDELY VARYING RESPONSES OF THE ENGINE AND
> TRANSMISSION, APPARENTLY DEPENDING ON THE TEMPERATURE OF THE AIR AND
> ENGINE. THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY TOUCHY AND SEEMS TO USE ONLY A SMALL
> PORTION OF THE MOVEMENT. THAT COUPLED WITH THE TRANSMISSION CONSTANTLY
> SHIFTING TO SET THE ENGINE SPEED AT NEAR IDLE IN ALL BUT FREEWAY
> DRIVING MAKES MANUALLY CONTROLLING THE SPEED WITHIN 5 MILES PER HOUR
> WHEN NEAR A SHIFT POINT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. THE CONSTANT SHIFTING AND
> REFUSAL TO SLOW DOWN WHEN THE ACCELERATOR IS RELEASED MAKES IT
> IMPOSSIBLE TO MANUALLY CONTROL THE SPEED OF THE VEHICLE ACCURATELY ON
> HILLY ROADS. THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROBLEM, NOT A ONE DAY EVENT. *TR
>
> THE VEHICLE DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMANDS OF THE DRIVER IN A TIMELY
> FASHION AND THE RESPONSE IS UNPREDICTABLE. WHILE WAITING TO MAKE A
> LEFT TURN FROM A FOUR LANE UNDIVIDED CITY STREET, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSED
> IN FRONT OF ME IN A CROSSWALK. AFTER THE PEDESTRIAN HAD CROSSED, I
> PROCEEDED TO MAKE A LEFT TURN BUT THE PEDESTRIAN DID NOT STOP.
> INSTEAD, HE MADE A SUDDEN TURN TO HIS RIGHT AND PROCEEDED ACROSS THE
> CROSSWALK WITHOUT LOOKING. I STOPPED PART WAY ACROSS THE INSIDE LANE
> OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC. THE PEDESTRIAN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
> CROSSWALK, LOOKED AT ME AND WAVED WHILE ONCOMING TRAFFIC APPROACHED.
> HE THEN PROCEEDED THE REST OF THE WAY ACROSS THE CROSSWALK. IN ORDER
> TO AVOID A HEAD ON COLLISION FROM A CAR THAT TURNED LEFT INTO THE
> ONCOMING INSIDE LANE AND RACED TOWARD ME, I GAVE THE ACCELERATOR A
> QUICK NUDGE PART WAY DOWN. THE VEHICLE REDLINED THE ENGINE AND BURNED
> RUBBER. THE SAME INPUT FROM THE DRIVER TWO DAYS BEFORE WHEN IT WAS
> COLD WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A SLUGGISH RESPONSE. I RELEASED THE
> ACCELERATOR, AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO SPIN THE TIRES ON THE DRY
> PAVEMENT, PROPELLING THE CAR FORWARD TOWARD THE PEDESTRIAN WHO WAS
> ABOUT ONE STEP FROM THE SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. I
> BARELY MANAGED TO STEER THE VEHICLE AWAY FROM THE PEDESTRIAN AND
> FINISH THE TURN WITH MY FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR. IN GENERAL, THE
> VEHICLE DOES NOT SLOW DOWN FOR QUITE SOME TIME WHEN I RELEASE THE
> ACCELERATOR. THE ONLY WAY TO SLOW DOWN IN A TIMELY MANNER IS WITH THE
> BRAKES. *TR
>
> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 FORD FUSION. WHILE DRIVING 1 MPH IN REVERSE,
> THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL INTERTWINED WITH HER
> FOOT AND SANDAL. AS A RESULT, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AND CRASHED INTO
> THE REAR DRIVER SIDE BUMPER OF ANOTHER VEHICLE. AS OF SEPTEMBER 28,
> 2007, THE DEALER AND MANUFACTURER HAD NOT INSPECTED THE VEHICLE. THE
> CONTACT FELT THAT THE DESIGN OF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAUSED THE
> FAILURE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 27,000 AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS
> 28,500.
>
> None of these incidents resulted in any injury and only one involved
> property damage (the lady who was backing up and got her foot tangled
> in the accelerator pedal). NHTSA has not opened an investigation
> (probably becasue the low number of complaints and the lack of any
> injuries). I persoanlly have never had any accelerator pedal issues
> with my Fusion. I do think the accelerator response can be "lazy" at
> times (particualrly the transmission downshift response) but I've
> never had any sort of run away or sudden acceleration. THe cruise
> control is the best I've ever had (it does a much better job of
> mainting a constant speed than I can with the accelerator).
>
> I looked up the complaints against 2007 Toyota Camry - there were
> many. Here is a document related to the floor mat concern:
>
> http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2007/EA/INME-EA07010-26873P.pdf
>
> There were many other sudden acceleration complaints cleary not
> related to the floor mat concern. Here are a few typical complaints of
> all tyoes (but only a few):
>
> I AM THE OWNER OF A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY THAT IS PART OF BOTH RECALLS FOR
> THE FLOORMAT ISSUE AND THE ACCELARTION ISSUE. WHEN I FIRST PURCHASED
> MY CAR IN AUGUST 2007, I IMMEDIATELY NOTICED ACCELARTION PROBLEMS AND
> CALLED THE DEALERSHIP ABOUT IT. THE CAR WAS BROUGHT IT AND REPAIRS
> WERE MADE, HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM CONTINUED TO EXIST AND I WAS TOLD THAT
> IT WAS NOTHING SERIOUS. IN FEBRUARY 2008, WE WERE INVOLVED IN AN AUTO
> ACCIDENT IN MY VEHICLE WITH OUR TEENAGE DAUGHTGER AN A FRIEND. WE WERE
> COMING TO A STOP LIGHT AND THERE WAS A CAR IN FRONT OF US AND OUR CAR
> CONTINUED TO ACCELARATE AND WE HIT THE BACK OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF US.
> THERE WAS SEVERE FRONT END DAMAGE TO MY VEHICLE, BUT THANKFULLY, NO
> REALLY BODILY INJURY TO THE PASSENGERS. AFTER PLACING A CALL TO THE
> DEALERSHIP AFTER THE ACCIDENT AND EXPLAINING THE ACCELERATION ISSUE TO
> THEM THAT I BELIEVE WAS THE REASON FOR THE ACCIDENT, I WAS TOLD THAT
> IT COULD NOT BE THE ISSUE AND THAT MY INITIAL ACCELERATION ISSUE HAD
> ALREADY BEEN FIXED. I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN THAT ARE IN MY CAR EVERYDAY
> AND I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN MY VEHICLE. MY FLOORMAT ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN
> FIXED AND NEITHER HAS THE PEDAL ISSUE. I AM EXTREMELY DISSAPOINTED
> WITH THE WAY THIS SITUATION IS BEING HANDLED, ESPEICALLY SINCE I FIRST
> NOTICED THE ISSUE RIGHT AFTER THE PURCHASE OF MY CAR AND I WAS ASSURED
> THAT IT WAS FIXED. PLEASE ADVISE. THANKS
>
> PROBLEM WITH ACCELERATOR STICKING AT HIGH SPEED (70 MPH); CONSIDERABLE
> LAG BETWEEN REMOVING FOOT FROM GAS PEDAL AND DECECELERATION. REQUIRED
> HARD BRAKING TO AVOID HITTING ANOTHER VEHICLE.
>
> WHILE DRIVING 2007 CAMRY ON LEVEL ROADWAY WITH CRUISE CONTROL ON AT 70
> MPH, TRANSMISSION WILL SUDDENLY DOWNSHIFT SEVERAL GEARS CAUSING CAR TO
> ACCELERATE AGGRESSIVELY AND ROCKET FORWARD. DURING ONE SUCH INSTANCE
> MY CAR LURCHED FORWARD AND ALMOST DROVE UNDER A TRACTOR TRAILER THAT
> WAS TRAVELING IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS AN INTERMITTENT PHENOMENON. WAS
> REPORTED TO TOYOTA ON 10/01/07. AN APPOINTMENT WAS SET UP FOR LOCAL
> DEALER TO CHECK OUT PROBLEM. AFTER TOYOTA HAD THE CAR FOR FULL DAY,
> THEY RESPONDED THAT THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. UPON PICKING
> UP THE CAR I FOUND THAT THEY HAD NOT DRIVEN THE CAR OFF THE DEALER
> LOT. UPON QUESTIONING THE SERVICE MANAGER, HOW THEY EXPECTED TO
> DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT ACTUALLY DRIVING THE CAR, HE BEGAN
> SCREAMING AND WAS EXTREMELY RUDE. FINALLY, HE AGREED TO AN ADDITIONAL
> APPOINTMENT WITH A 'TECH PERSON' THE FOLLOWING WEEK. THE PROBLEM DID
> NOT OCCUR WHILE THE TECH PERSON WAS RIDING IN THE CAR. THERE WAS NO
> FURTHER FOLLOW UP TESTING BY TOYOTA. I WILL NO LONGER USE THE CRUISE
> CONTROL WHILE DRIVING THIS CAMRY. NOTE: THIS CAR HAD IT'S 'SOFTWARE'
> UPDATED PREVIOUSLY DUE TO SLUGGISH ACCELERATION IN TRAFFIC.
>
> THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY SLOW TO RESPOND TO PEDEL ACTION. AT VARIOUS
> TIMES SINCE PURCHASING THE CAR NEW IN SEPTEMBER 2006, THE CAR WILL NOT
> ACCELERATE FOR 4 TO 5 SECONDS AFTER THE PEDAL IS PUSHED ALMOST CAUSING
> NUMEROUS ACCIDENTS. THE DEALER REPLACED THE VALVE BODY AND
> REPROGRAMMED THE TRANSMISSION, BUT THE PROBLEM STILL REMAINS. DEALER
> SAYS THEY HAVE DONE ALL THAT TOYOTA HAS ALLOWED THEM TO DO.
>
> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY . THE CONTACT STATED THAT WHEN
> DRIVING AT 60 MPH WHEN WITHOUT ANY WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PETAL HIT
> THE FLOOR AND THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN . THE CONTACT APPLIED
> THE BRAKES WITH EXTREME PRESSURE BUT THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
> ACCELERATE. THE CONTACT PUT THE VEHICLE IN NEUTRAL AND PULLED TO THE
> SIDE OF THE ROAD AND TURNED THE VEHICLE OFF. AFTER 5 MINUTES THE
> CONTACT RESTARTED THE VEHICLE AND THE FAILURE OCCURRED ONCE AGAIN.THE
> PETAL HIT THE FLOOR TRAVELING 70 MPH. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE
> DEALER AND WAS TRADED.THE DEALER STATED THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG
> WITH THE VEHICLE. NO REPAIRS WERE DONE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 17000.
>
> THE CONTACT OWNED A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. SHE STATED WHILE TRAVELING AT
> SPEEDS OF 55 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT WARNING. SHE
> STATED SHE COULD FEEL THE POWER OF THE VEHICLE PULLING AT SPEEDS OF 80
> MPH. SHE SEARCHED THE FLOORBOARD OF THE VEHICLE TO ENSURE THERE WAS
> NOTHING OBSTRUCTING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, THERE WAS NOT. SHE
> CONTINUED TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL TO THE FLOORBOARD, TO NO AVAIL.
> SHE WAS THEN FACED WITH HAVING TO TAKE AN OFF RAMP AND SHE CRASHED
> INTO THE SIDE OF A PASSING SEMI-TRUCK AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
> ACCELERATE AFTER CRASHING INTO THE TRUCK. SHE THEN MADE THE DECISION
> TO CRASH INTO A CHAIN LINK FENCE IN AN ATTEMPT TO STOP THE VEHICLE.
> THE VEHICLE CAME TO A STOP ONCE IT BECAME ENTANGLED IN THE CHAIN
> FENCE. THE POLICE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE BUT NO REPORT WAS FILED BECAUSE
> THERE WERE NO INJURIES, AS STATED BY THE OFFICER AT THE SCENE. THE
> VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE
> UNKNOWN
>
> I HAVE A 2007 CAMRY. TWO YEARS AGO I EXPERIENCED FULL SPEED
> ACCELERATION WHILE DRIVING ON THE EXPRESSWAY. IT WAS VERY SCARY I PUT
> FULL FORCE ON THE BRAKES BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP I DROVE ON THE SHOULDER
> AND FORCE THE GEARS INTO PARK. I CALLED THE TOYOTA DEALER BUT THEY
> KEPT SAYING CAMRY DOES NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM. I CALLED ON NUMEROUS
> OCCASION AND WANTED THEM TO RECORD THE INCIDENT BUT THEY WOULDN'T.
> HAVING EXPERIENCE THIS TWO YEARS AGO I HAVE BEEN SO TERRIFIED TO DRIVE
> THE CAR I DRIVE SO SLOWLY NOW. THEY JUST IGNORED ME
>
> Those are just a few of the many complaints of sudden acceleration
> against a singel year/model (2007 Camry).
>
> Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota
> Camry (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67
> compliants of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48
> complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints of
> all types. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all sorts.
> The 2007 Honda Accord generated 119 complaints of all sorts
>
> Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times the
> number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival?

dude, you either need to get back on the happy pills, or you need to
stop prostituting yourself to post this factless ridiculous fabricated
bullshit.

seriously, how much are you getting paid? and who is writing it for you?



> Even assumuing
> that the Camry can be expected to generate more complaints becasue of
> the large number of sales, it is hard to see how a quality vehicle
> would generate 10 times the number of complaints based on even twice
> the sales of the domestic competitors.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: C. E. White on 9 Feb 2010 08:48

"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:-OidnVGxEq_DQO3WnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...
> On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, C. E. White wrote:
.....junk of text deleted to save sapce...

>> Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota
>> Camry (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67
>> compliants of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48
>> complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints
>> of
>> all types. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all
>> sorts.
>> The 2007 Honda Accord generated 119 complaints of all sorts
>>
>> Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times
>> the
>> number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival?
>
> dude, you either need to get back on the happy pills, or you need to
> stop prostituting yourself to post this factless ridiculous
> fabricated bullshit.

You can easily verify everthing posted. Go to
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ and search on 2007 Toyota
Camry (or any other Year / make / model) and see for yourself. I
checked again today. Here are the results for the last ten years of
Camrys (not hybrid, not Solara):

* 2000 - 423 complaints of all types / 39 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (3 categories)
* 2001 - 237 complaints of all types / 20 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (3 categories)
* 2002 - 740 complaints of all types / 159 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (3 categories)
* 2003 - 518 complaints of all types / 139 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)
* 2004 - 403 complaints of all types / 96 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (3 categories)
* 2005 - 332 complaints of all types / 83 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)
* 2006 - 139 complaints of all types / 39 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)
* 2007 - 709 complaints of all types / 165 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)
* 2008 - 86 complaints of all types / 26 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)
* 2009 - 57 complaints of all types / 52 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)
* 2010 - 37 complaints of all types / 13 "vehicle speed control
complaints" (2 categories)

For some years there were complaints about the operation of the cruise
control (it is a separate vechicle speed control categoty). I did not
include those complaints in the number of vehicle speed control
complaints (I did include "vehicle speed control, vehicle speed
control: pedal, and vehicle speed control: linkage). In some cases
cruise control complaints may be related to the recalls, but I thought
it might confuse the issue if I included those in the totals. My SO's
RAV4 cruise control is wachy (it goes wild under certain specific
conditions) and I can see how this might lead to some of the vehicle
speed control complaints, but I think that is a separate issue.

> seriously, how much are you getting paid? and who is writing it for
> you?

No one is paying me. Why not ask some of the people who post the
Toyota excuses those same questions. They seem to follow the standard
Toyota playbook when it comes to defects - 1) pretend there is not a
defect, b) claim the defect is not a safety problem, c) misrepresent
the statistics as much as possible, d) try to divert attention, e)
blame the Customers, suppliers, or government, f) just before NHTSA
issues a mandatory recall, announce a voluntary recall and issue a
press release saying how much you care for your customers.

I don't beleive Toyota builds especially bad vehicles. Some are very
good, some aren't. But this notion that Toyota "cares" about their
Customers more than other brands is total BS. The only thing Toyota
cares about is the bottom line. They want as much of your money as
they can get and they want to spend as little on fixing defects as
they can get away with. Toyota could get away with covering up defects
when they were a minor player. Now that they are number 1 (or close)
it isn't so easy to hide.

Ed


From: Canuck57 on 9 Feb 2010 09:09
On 08/02/2010 8:58 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>> "Canuck57"<Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:NXJan.72107$U83.4469(a)newsfe10.iad...
>>
>>> Does not mater what the administration wants to do to pick on
>>> Toyota. Fact remains Toyota came clean and GM& Ford did not until
>>> it became public.
>>
>> What did Ford and GM have to come clean about? I think ever
>> manufacturer has had complaints of sudden acceleration. Most have
>> tried to address the problem. The NHTSA Database is availabel at
>> http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ . You can download the
>> compelte complaint database if you wish.
>>
>> Since I own a 2007 Ford Fusion, I was interested to see what sort of
>> acceleration problems were listed against that model. There were
>> several complaints that the accelerator pedal was "touchy" or hard to
>> control. There were no complaints that the car ran away in the same
>> manner as is claimed for some Toyota models. Here are all the
>> "accelerator control" complaints I saw for a 2007 Ford Fusion:
>>
>> THE VEHICLE RESPONSE TO THE ACCELERATOR IS UNPREDICTABLE AND ALWAYS
>> DELAYED. SOMETIMES THE CAR WILL INTERPRET A SMALL QUICK DEPRESSION OF
>> THE ACCELERATOR THE SAME AS FLOORING THE ACCELERATOR. THERE IS ALWAYS
>> A DELAY OF TWO TO THREE SECONDS BEFORE IT RESPONDS AT ALL. THE SAME
>> ACTION CAN RESULT IN WIDELY VARYING RESPONSES OF THE ENGINE AND
>> TRANSMISSION, APPARENTLY DEPENDING ON THE TEMPERATURE OF THE AIR AND
>> ENGINE. THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY TOUCHY AND SEEMS TO USE ONLY A SMALL
>> PORTION OF THE MOVEMENT. THAT COUPLED WITH THE TRANSMISSION CONSTANTLY
>> SHIFTING TO SET THE ENGINE SPEED AT NEAR IDLE IN ALL BUT FREEWAY
>> DRIVING MAKES MANUALLY CONTROLLING THE SPEED WITHIN 5 MILES PER HOUR
>> WHEN NEAR A SHIFT POINT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. THE CONSTANT SHIFTING AND
>> REFUSAL TO SLOW DOWN WHEN THE ACCELERATOR IS RELEASED MAKES IT
>> IMPOSSIBLE TO MANUALLY CONTROL THE SPEED OF THE VEHICLE ACCURATELY ON
>> HILLY ROADS. THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROBLEM, NOT A ONE DAY EVENT. *TR
>>
>> THE VEHICLE DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMANDS OF THE DRIVER IN A TIMELY
>> FASHION AND THE RESPONSE IS UNPREDICTABLE. WHILE WAITING TO MAKE A
>> LEFT TURN FROM A FOUR LANE UNDIVIDED CITY STREET, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSED
>> IN FRONT OF ME IN A CROSSWALK. AFTER THE PEDESTRIAN HAD CROSSED, I
>> PROCEEDED TO MAKE A LEFT TURN BUT THE PEDESTRIAN DID NOT STOP.
>> INSTEAD, HE MADE A SUDDEN TURN TO HIS RIGHT AND PROCEEDED ACROSS THE
>> CROSSWALK WITHOUT LOOKING. I STOPPED PART WAY ACROSS THE INSIDE LANE
>> OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC. THE PEDESTRIAN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
>> CROSSWALK, LOOKED AT ME AND WAVED WHILE ONCOMING TRAFFIC APPROACHED.
>> HE THEN PROCEEDED THE REST OF THE WAY ACROSS THE CROSSWALK. IN ORDER
>> TO AVOID A HEAD ON COLLISION FROM A CAR THAT TURNED LEFT INTO THE
>> ONCOMING INSIDE LANE AND RACED TOWARD ME, I GAVE THE ACCELERATOR A
>> QUICK NUDGE PART WAY DOWN. THE VEHICLE REDLINED THE ENGINE AND BURNED
>> RUBBER. THE SAME INPUT FROM THE DRIVER TWO DAYS BEFORE WHEN IT WAS
>> COLD WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A SLUGGISH RESPONSE. I RELEASED THE
>> ACCELERATOR, AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO SPIN THE TIRES ON THE DRY
>> PAVEMENT, PROPELLING THE CAR FORWARD TOWARD THE PEDESTRIAN WHO WAS
>> ABOUT ONE STEP FROM THE SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. I
>> BARELY MANAGED TO STEER THE VEHICLE AWAY FROM THE PEDESTRIAN AND
>> FINISH THE TURN WITH MY FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR. IN GENERAL, THE
>> VEHICLE DOES NOT SLOW DOWN FOR QUITE SOME TIME WHEN I RELEASE THE
>> ACCELERATOR. THE ONLY WAY TO SLOW DOWN IN A TIMELY MANNER IS WITH THE
>> BRAKES. *TR
>>
>> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 FORD FUSION. WHILE DRIVING 1 MPH IN REVERSE,
>> THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL INTERTWINED WITH HER
>> FOOT AND SANDAL. AS A RESULT, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AND CRASHED INTO
>> THE REAR DRIVER SIDE BUMPER OF ANOTHER VEHICLE. AS OF SEPTEMBER 28,
>> 2007, THE DEALER AND MANUFACTURER HAD NOT INSPECTED THE VEHICLE. THE
>> CONTACT FELT THAT THE DESIGN OF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAUSED THE
>> FAILURE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 27,000 AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS
>> 28,500.
>>
>> None of these incidents resulted in any injury and only one involved
>> property damage (the lady who was backing up and got her foot tangled
>> in the accelerator pedal). NHTSA has not opened an investigation
>> (probably becasue the low number of complaints and the lack of any
>> injuries). I persoanlly have never had any accelerator pedal issues
>> with my Fusion. I do think the accelerator response can be "lazy" at
>> times (particualrly the transmission downshift response) but I've
>> never had any sort of run away or sudden acceleration. THe cruise
>> control is the best I've ever had (it does a much better job of
>> mainting a constant speed than I can with the accelerator).
>>
>> I looked up the complaints against 2007 Toyota Camry - there were
>> many. Here is a document related to the floor mat concern:
>>
>> http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2007/EA/INME-EA07010-26873P.pdf
>>
>>
>> There were many other sudden acceleration complaints cleary not
>> related to the floor mat concern. Here are a few typical complaints of
>> all tyoes (but only a few):
>>
>> I AM THE OWNER OF A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY THAT IS PART OF BOTH RECALLS FOR
>> THE FLOORMAT ISSUE AND THE ACCELARTION ISSUE. WHEN I FIRST PURCHASED
>> MY CAR IN AUGUST 2007, I IMMEDIATELY NOTICED ACCELARTION PROBLEMS AND
>> CALLED THE DEALERSHIP ABOUT IT. THE CAR WAS BROUGHT IT AND REPAIRS
>> WERE MADE, HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM CONTINUED TO EXIST AND I WAS TOLD THAT
>> IT WAS NOTHING SERIOUS. IN FEBRUARY 2008, WE WERE INVOLVED IN AN AUTO
>> ACCIDENT IN MY VEHICLE WITH OUR TEENAGE DAUGHTGER AN A FRIEND. WE WERE
>> COMING TO A STOP LIGHT AND THERE WAS A CAR IN FRONT OF US AND OUR CAR
>> CONTINUED TO ACCELARATE AND WE HIT THE BACK OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF US.
>> THERE WAS SEVERE FRONT END DAMAGE TO MY VEHICLE, BUT THANKFULLY, NO
>> REALLY BODILY INJURY TO THE PASSENGERS. AFTER PLACING A CALL TO THE
>> DEALERSHIP AFTER THE ACCIDENT AND EXPLAINING THE ACCELERATION ISSUE TO
>> THEM THAT I BELIEVE WAS THE REASON FOR THE ACCIDENT, I WAS TOLD THAT
>> IT COULD NOT BE THE ISSUE AND THAT MY INITIAL ACCELERATION ISSUE HAD
>> ALREADY BEEN FIXED. I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN THAT ARE IN MY CAR EVERYDAY
>> AND I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN MY VEHICLE. MY FLOORMAT ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN
>> FIXED AND NEITHER HAS THE PEDAL ISSUE. I AM EXTREMELY DISSAPOINTED
>> WITH THE WAY THIS SITUATION IS BEING HANDLED, ESPEICALLY SINCE I FIRST
>> NOTICED THE ISSUE RIGHT AFTER THE PURCHASE OF MY CAR AND I WAS ASSURED
>> THAT IT WAS FIXED. PLEASE ADVISE. THANKS
>>
>> PROBLEM WITH ACCELERATOR STICKING AT HIGH SPEED (70 MPH); CONSIDERABLE
>> LAG BETWEEN REMOVING FOOT FROM GAS PEDAL AND DECECELERATION. REQUIRED
>> HARD BRAKING TO AVOID HITTING ANOTHER VEHICLE.
>>
>> WHILE DRIVING 2007 CAMRY ON LEVEL ROADWAY WITH CRUISE CONTROL ON AT 70
>> MPH, TRANSMISSION WILL SUDDENLY DOWNSHIFT SEVERAL GEARS CAUSING CAR TO
>> ACCELERATE AGGRESSIVELY AND ROCKET FORWARD. DURING ONE SUCH INSTANCE
>> MY CAR LURCHED FORWARD AND ALMOST DROVE UNDER A TRACTOR TRAILER THAT
>> WAS TRAVELING IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS AN INTERMITTENT PHENOMENON. WAS
>> REPORTED TO TOYOTA ON 10/01/07. AN APPOINTMENT WAS SET UP FOR LOCAL
>> DEALER TO CHECK OUT PROBLEM. AFTER TOYOTA HAD THE CAR FOR FULL DAY,
>> THEY RESPONDED THAT THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. UPON PICKING
>> UP THE CAR I FOUND THAT THEY HAD NOT DRIVEN THE CAR OFF THE DEALER
>> LOT. UPON QUESTIONING THE SERVICE MANAGER, HOW THEY EXPECTED TO
>> DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT ACTUALLY DRIVING THE CAR, HE BEGAN
>> SCREAMING AND WAS EXTREMELY RUDE. FINALLY, HE AGREED TO AN ADDITIONAL
>> APPOINTMENT WITH A 'TECH PERSON' THE FOLLOWING WEEK. THE PROBLEM DID
>> NOT OCCUR WHILE THE TECH PERSON WAS RIDING IN THE CAR. THERE WAS NO
>> FURTHER FOLLOW UP TESTING BY TOYOTA. I WILL NO LONGER USE THE CRUISE
>> CONTROL WHILE DRIVING THIS CAMRY. NOTE: THIS CAR HAD IT'S 'SOFTWARE'
>> UPDATED PREVIOUSLY DUE TO SLUGGISH ACCELERATION IN TRAFFIC.
>>
>> THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY SLOW TO RESPOND TO PEDEL ACTION. AT VARIOUS
>> TIMES SINCE PURCHASING THE CAR NEW IN SEPTEMBER 2006, THE CAR WILL NOT
>> ACCELERATE FOR 4 TO 5 SECONDS AFTER THE PEDAL IS PUSHED ALMOST CAUSING
>> NUMEROUS ACCIDENTS. THE DEALER REPLACED THE VALVE BODY AND
>> REPROGRAMMED THE TRANSMISSION, BUT THE PROBLEM STILL REMAINS. DEALER
>> SAYS THEY HAVE DONE ALL THAT TOYOTA HAS ALLOWED THEM TO DO.
>>
>> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY . THE CONTACT STATED THAT WHEN
>> DRIVING AT 60 MPH WHEN WITHOUT ANY WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PETAL HIT
>> THE FLOOR AND THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN . THE CONTACT APPLIED
>> THE BRAKES WITH EXTREME PRESSURE BUT THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
>> ACCELERATE. THE CONTACT PUT THE VEHICLE IN NEUTRAL AND PULLED TO THE
>> SIDE OF THE ROAD AND TURNED THE VEHICLE OFF. AFTER 5 MINUTES THE
>> CONTACT RESTARTED THE VEHICLE AND THE FAILURE OCCURRED ONCE AGAIN.THE
>> PETAL HIT THE FLOOR TRAVELING 70 MPH. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE
>> DEALER AND WAS TRADED.THE DEALER STATED THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG
>> WITH THE VEHICLE. NO REPAIRS WERE DONE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 17000.
>>
>> THE CONTACT OWNED A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. SHE STATED WHILE TRAVELING AT
>> SPEEDS OF 55 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT WARNING. SHE
>> STATED SHE COULD FEEL THE POWER OF THE VEHICLE PULLING AT SPEEDS OF 80
>> MPH. SHE SEARCHED THE FLOORBOARD OF THE VEHICLE TO ENSURE THERE WAS
>> NOTHING OBSTRUCTING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, THERE WAS NOT. SHE
>> CONTINUED TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL TO THE FLOORBOARD, TO NO AVAIL.
>> SHE WAS THEN FACED WITH HAVING TO TAKE AN OFF RAMP AND SHE CRASHED
>> INTO THE SIDE OF A PASSING SEMI-TRUCK AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
>> ACCELERATE AFTER CRASHING INTO THE TRUCK. SHE THEN MADE THE DECISION
>> TO CRASH INTO A CHAIN LINK FENCE IN AN ATTEMPT TO STOP THE VEHICLE.
>> THE VEHICLE CAME TO A STOP ONCE IT BECAME ENTANGLED IN THE CHAIN
>> FENCE. THE POLICE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE BUT NO REPORT WAS FILED BECAUSE
>> THERE WERE NO INJURIES, AS STATED BY THE OFFICER AT THE SCENE. THE
>> VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE
>> UNKNOWN
>>
>> I HAVE A 2007 CAMRY. TWO YEARS AGO I EXPERIENCED FULL SPEED
>> ACCELERATION WHILE DRIVING ON THE EXPRESSWAY. IT WAS VERY SCARY I PUT
>> FULL FORCE ON THE BRAKES BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP I DROVE ON THE SHOULDER
>> AND FORCE THE GEARS INTO PARK. I CALLED THE TOYOTA DEALER BUT THEY
>> KEPT SAYING CAMRY DOES NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM. I CALLED ON NUMEROUS
>> OCCASION AND WANTED THEM TO RECORD THE INCIDENT BUT THEY WOULDN'T.
>> HAVING EXPERIENCE THIS TWO YEARS AGO I HAVE BEEN SO TERRIFIED TO DRIVE
>> THE CAR I DRIVE SO SLOWLY NOW. THEY JUST IGNORED ME
>>
>> Those are just a few of the many complaints of sudden acceleration
>> against a singel year/model (2007 Camry).
>>
>> Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota
>> Camry (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67
>> compliants of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48
>> complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints of
>> all types. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all sorts.
>> The 2007 Honda Accord generated 119 complaints of all sorts
>>
>> Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times the
>> number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival?
>
> dude, you either need to get back on the happy pills, or you need to
> stop prostituting yourself to post this factless ridiculous fabricated
> bullshit.
>
> seriously, how much are you getting paid? and who is writing it for you?

I am getting paid nothing for this. Download the database for yourself,
Toyota is certainly better than any of the Detroit 3. When Toyota has a
safety defect it makes front page, when GM does one the media grunts.

I might add, anyone can submit their problems to the government, so if
you GM transmission craps ont he hiway, report it. I wish I did.
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