Prev: JoeSpareBedroom, where are you?!
Next: Pro-Toyota Government Influence
From: Mike Hunter on 9 Feb 2010 09:58
Once again our friend Canuck57 is telling us the sky is falling LOL


"Canuck57" <Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
news:m0ecn.57455$s%.35319(a)newsfe18.iad...
> On 08/02/2010 8:58 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>>> "Canuck57"<Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:NXJan.72107$U83.4469(a)newsfe10.iad...
>>>
>>>> Does not mater what the administration wants to do to pick on
>>>> Toyota. Fact remains Toyota came clean and GM& Ford did not until
>>>> it became public.
>>>
>>> What did Ford and GM have to come clean about? I think ever
>>> manufacturer has had complaints of sudden acceleration. Most have
>>> tried to address the problem. The NHTSA Database is availabel at
>>> http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ . You can download the
>>> compelte complaint database if you wish.
>>>
>>> Since I own a 2007 Ford Fusion, I was interested to see what sort of
>>> acceleration problems were listed against that model. There were
>>> several complaints that the accelerator pedal was "touchy" or hard to
>>> control. There were no complaints that the car ran away in the same
>>> manner as is claimed for some Toyota models. Here are all the
>>> "accelerator control" complaints I saw for a 2007 Ford Fusion:
>>>
>>> THE VEHICLE RESPONSE TO THE ACCELERATOR IS UNPREDICTABLE AND ALWAYS
>>> DELAYED. SOMETIMES THE CAR WILL INTERPRET A SMALL QUICK DEPRESSION OF
>>> THE ACCELERATOR THE SAME AS FLOORING THE ACCELERATOR. THERE IS ALWAYS
>>> A DELAY OF TWO TO THREE SECONDS BEFORE IT RESPONDS AT ALL. THE SAME
>>> ACTION CAN RESULT IN WIDELY VARYING RESPONSES OF THE ENGINE AND
>>> TRANSMISSION, APPARENTLY DEPENDING ON THE TEMPERATURE OF THE AIR AND
>>> ENGINE. THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY TOUCHY AND SEEMS TO USE ONLY A SMALL
>>> PORTION OF THE MOVEMENT. THAT COUPLED WITH THE TRANSMISSION CONSTANTLY
>>> SHIFTING TO SET THE ENGINE SPEED AT NEAR IDLE IN ALL BUT FREEWAY
>>> DRIVING MAKES MANUALLY CONTROLLING THE SPEED WITHIN 5 MILES PER HOUR
>>> WHEN NEAR A SHIFT POINT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. THE CONSTANT SHIFTING AND
>>> REFUSAL TO SLOW DOWN WHEN THE ACCELERATOR IS RELEASED MAKES IT
>>> IMPOSSIBLE TO MANUALLY CONTROL THE SPEED OF THE VEHICLE ACCURATELY ON
>>> HILLY ROADS. THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROBLEM, NOT A ONE DAY EVENT. *TR
>>>
>>> THE VEHICLE DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE COMMANDS OF THE DRIVER IN A TIMELY
>>> FASHION AND THE RESPONSE IS UNPREDICTABLE. WHILE WAITING TO MAKE A
>>> LEFT TURN FROM A FOUR LANE UNDIVIDED CITY STREET, A PEDESTRIAN CROSSED
>>> IN FRONT OF ME IN A CROSSWALK. AFTER THE PEDESTRIAN HAD CROSSED, I
>>> PROCEEDED TO MAKE A LEFT TURN BUT THE PEDESTRIAN DID NOT STOP.
>>> INSTEAD, HE MADE A SUDDEN TURN TO HIS RIGHT AND PROCEEDED ACROSS THE
>>> CROSSWALK WITHOUT LOOKING. I STOPPED PART WAY ACROSS THE INSIDE LANE
>>> OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC. THE PEDESTRIAN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
>>> CROSSWALK, LOOKED AT ME AND WAVED WHILE ONCOMING TRAFFIC APPROACHED.
>>> HE THEN PROCEEDED THE REST OF THE WAY ACROSS THE CROSSWALK. IN ORDER
>>> TO AVOID A HEAD ON COLLISION FROM A CAR THAT TURNED LEFT INTO THE
>>> ONCOMING INSIDE LANE AND RACED TOWARD ME, I GAVE THE ACCELERATOR A
>>> QUICK NUDGE PART WAY DOWN. THE VEHICLE REDLINED THE ENGINE AND BURNED
>>> RUBBER. THE SAME INPUT FROM THE DRIVER TWO DAYS BEFORE WHEN IT WAS
>>> COLD WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A SLUGGISH RESPONSE. I RELEASED THE
>>> ACCELERATOR, AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO SPIN THE TIRES ON THE DRY
>>> PAVEMENT, PROPELLING THE CAR FORWARD TOWARD THE PEDESTRIAN WHO WAS
>>> ABOUT ONE STEP FROM THE SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. I
>>> BARELY MANAGED TO STEER THE VEHICLE AWAY FROM THE PEDESTRIAN AND
>>> FINISH THE TURN WITH MY FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR. IN GENERAL, THE
>>> VEHICLE DOES NOT SLOW DOWN FOR QUITE SOME TIME WHEN I RELEASE THE
>>> ACCELERATOR. THE ONLY WAY TO SLOW DOWN IN A TIMELY MANNER IS WITH THE
>>> BRAKES. *TR
>>>
>>> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 FORD FUSION. WHILE DRIVING 1 MPH IN REVERSE,
>>> THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL INTERTWINED WITH HER
>>> FOOT AND SANDAL. AS A RESULT, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AND CRASHED INTO
>>> THE REAR DRIVER SIDE BUMPER OF ANOTHER VEHICLE. AS OF SEPTEMBER 28,
>>> 2007, THE DEALER AND MANUFACTURER HAD NOT INSPECTED THE VEHICLE. THE
>>> CONTACT FELT THAT THE DESIGN OF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAUSED THE
>>> FAILURE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 27,000 AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS
>>> 28,500.
>>>
>>> None of these incidents resulted in any injury and only one involved
>>> property damage (the lady who was backing up and got her foot tangled
>>> in the accelerator pedal). NHTSA has not opened an investigation
>>> (probably becasue the low number of complaints and the lack of any
>>> injuries). I persoanlly have never had any accelerator pedal issues
>>> with my Fusion. I do think the accelerator response can be "lazy" at
>>> times (particualrly the transmission downshift response) but I've
>>> never had any sort of run away or sudden acceleration. THe cruise
>>> control is the best I've ever had (it does a much better job of
>>> mainting a constant speed than I can with the accelerator).
>>>
>>> I looked up the complaints against 2007 Toyota Camry - there were
>>> many. Here is a document related to the floor mat concern:
>>>
>>> http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2007/EA/INME-EA07010-26873P.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> There were many other sudden acceleration complaints cleary not
>>> related to the floor mat concern. Here are a few typical complaints of
>>> all tyoes (but only a few):
>>>
>>> I AM THE OWNER OF A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY THAT IS PART OF BOTH RECALLS FOR
>>> THE FLOORMAT ISSUE AND THE ACCELARTION ISSUE. WHEN I FIRST PURCHASED
>>> MY CAR IN AUGUST 2007, I IMMEDIATELY NOTICED ACCELARTION PROBLEMS AND
>>> CALLED THE DEALERSHIP ABOUT IT. THE CAR WAS BROUGHT IT AND REPAIRS
>>> WERE MADE, HOWEVER, THE PROBLEM CONTINUED TO EXIST AND I WAS TOLD THAT
>>> IT WAS NOTHING SERIOUS. IN FEBRUARY 2008, WE WERE INVOLVED IN AN AUTO
>>> ACCIDENT IN MY VEHICLE WITH OUR TEENAGE DAUGHTGER AN A FRIEND. WE WERE
>>> COMING TO A STOP LIGHT AND THERE WAS A CAR IN FRONT OF US AND OUR CAR
>>> CONTINUED TO ACCELARATE AND WE HIT THE BACK OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF US.
>>> THERE WAS SEVERE FRONT END DAMAGE TO MY VEHICLE, BUT THANKFULLY, NO
>>> REALLY BODILY INJURY TO THE PASSENGERS. AFTER PLACING A CALL TO THE
>>> DEALERSHIP AFTER THE ACCIDENT AND EXPLAINING THE ACCELERATION ISSUE TO
>>> THEM THAT I BELIEVE WAS THE REASON FOR THE ACCIDENT, I WAS TOLD THAT
>>> IT COULD NOT BE THE ISSUE AND THAT MY INITIAL ACCELERATION ISSUE HAD
>>> ALREADY BEEN FIXED. I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN THAT ARE IN MY CAR EVERYDAY
>>> AND I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN MY VEHICLE. MY FLOORMAT ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN
>>> FIXED AND NEITHER HAS THE PEDAL ISSUE. I AM EXTREMELY DISSAPOINTED
>>> WITH THE WAY THIS SITUATION IS BEING HANDLED, ESPEICALLY SINCE I FIRST
>>> NOTICED THE ISSUE RIGHT AFTER THE PURCHASE OF MY CAR AND I WAS ASSURED
>>> THAT IT WAS FIXED. PLEASE ADVISE. THANKS
>>>
>>> PROBLEM WITH ACCELERATOR STICKING AT HIGH SPEED (70 MPH); CONSIDERABLE
>>> LAG BETWEEN REMOVING FOOT FROM GAS PEDAL AND DECECELERATION. REQUIRED
>>> HARD BRAKING TO AVOID HITTING ANOTHER VEHICLE.
>>>
>>> WHILE DRIVING 2007 CAMRY ON LEVEL ROADWAY WITH CRUISE CONTROL ON AT 70
>>> MPH, TRANSMISSION WILL SUDDENLY DOWNSHIFT SEVERAL GEARS CAUSING CAR TO
>>> ACCELERATE AGGRESSIVELY AND ROCKET FORWARD. DURING ONE SUCH INSTANCE
>>> MY CAR LURCHED FORWARD AND ALMOST DROVE UNDER A TRACTOR TRAILER THAT
>>> WAS TRAVELING IN FRONT OF US. THIS IS AN INTERMITTENT PHENOMENON. WAS
>>> REPORTED TO TOYOTA ON 10/01/07. AN APPOINTMENT WAS SET UP FOR LOCAL
>>> DEALER TO CHECK OUT PROBLEM. AFTER TOYOTA HAD THE CAR FOR FULL DAY,
>>> THEY RESPONDED THAT THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. UPON PICKING
>>> UP THE CAR I FOUND THAT THEY HAD NOT DRIVEN THE CAR OFF THE DEALER
>>> LOT. UPON QUESTIONING THE SERVICE MANAGER, HOW THEY EXPECTED TO
>>> DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT ACTUALLY DRIVING THE CAR, HE BEGAN
>>> SCREAMING AND WAS EXTREMELY RUDE. FINALLY, HE AGREED TO AN ADDITIONAL
>>> APPOINTMENT WITH A 'TECH PERSON' THE FOLLOWING WEEK. THE PROBLEM DID
>>> NOT OCCUR WHILE THE TECH PERSON WAS RIDING IN THE CAR. THERE WAS NO
>>> FURTHER FOLLOW UP TESTING BY TOYOTA. I WILL NO LONGER USE THE CRUISE
>>> CONTROL WHILE DRIVING THIS CAMRY. NOTE: THIS CAR HAD IT'S 'SOFTWARE'
>>> UPDATED PREVIOUSLY DUE TO SLUGGISH ACCELERATION IN TRAFFIC.
>>>
>>> THE ACCELERATOR IS VERY SLOW TO RESPOND TO PEDEL ACTION. AT VARIOUS
>>> TIMES SINCE PURCHASING THE CAR NEW IN SEPTEMBER 2006, THE CAR WILL NOT
>>> ACCELERATE FOR 4 TO 5 SECONDS AFTER THE PEDAL IS PUSHED ALMOST CAUSING
>>> NUMEROUS ACCIDENTS. THE DEALER REPLACED THE VALVE BODY AND
>>> REPROGRAMMED THE TRANSMISSION, BUT THE PROBLEM STILL REMAINS. DEALER
>>> SAYS THEY HAVE DONE ALL THAT TOYOTA HAS ALLOWED THEM TO DO.
>>>
>>> THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY . THE CONTACT STATED THAT WHEN
>>> DRIVING AT 60 MPH WHEN WITHOUT ANY WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PETAL HIT
>>> THE FLOOR AND THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN . THE CONTACT APPLIED
>>> THE BRAKES WITH EXTREME PRESSURE BUT THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
>>> ACCELERATE. THE CONTACT PUT THE VEHICLE IN NEUTRAL AND PULLED TO THE
>>> SIDE OF THE ROAD AND TURNED THE VEHICLE OFF. AFTER 5 MINUTES THE
>>> CONTACT RESTARTED THE VEHICLE AND THE FAILURE OCCURRED ONCE AGAIN.THE
>>> PETAL HIT THE FLOOR TRAVELING 70 MPH. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE
>>> DEALER AND WAS TRADED.THE DEALER STATED THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG
>>> WITH THE VEHICLE. NO REPAIRS WERE DONE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 17000.
>>>
>>> THE CONTACT OWNED A 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY. SHE STATED WHILE TRAVELING AT
>>> SPEEDS OF 55 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT WARNING. SHE
>>> STATED SHE COULD FEEL THE POWER OF THE VEHICLE PULLING AT SPEEDS OF 80
>>> MPH. SHE SEARCHED THE FLOORBOARD OF THE VEHICLE TO ENSURE THERE WAS
>>> NOTHING OBSTRUCTING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, THERE WAS NOT. SHE
>>> CONTINUED TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL TO THE FLOORBOARD, TO NO AVAIL.
>>> SHE WAS THEN FACED WITH HAVING TO TAKE AN OFF RAMP AND SHE CRASHED
>>> INTO THE SIDE OF A PASSING SEMI-TRUCK AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO
>>> ACCELERATE AFTER CRASHING INTO THE TRUCK. SHE THEN MADE THE DECISION
>>> TO CRASH INTO A CHAIN LINK FENCE IN AN ATTEMPT TO STOP THE VEHICLE.
>>> THE VEHICLE CAME TO A STOP ONCE IT BECAME ENTANGLED IN THE CHAIN
>>> FENCE. THE POLICE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE BUT NO REPORT WAS FILED BECAUSE
>>> THERE WERE NO INJURIES, AS STATED BY THE OFFICER AT THE SCENE. THE
>>> VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE
>>> UNKNOWN
>>>
>>> I HAVE A 2007 CAMRY. TWO YEARS AGO I EXPERIENCED FULL SPEED
>>> ACCELERATION WHILE DRIVING ON THE EXPRESSWAY. IT WAS VERY SCARY I PUT
>>> FULL FORCE ON THE BRAKES BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP I DROVE ON THE SHOULDER
>>> AND FORCE THE GEARS INTO PARK. I CALLED THE TOYOTA DEALER BUT THEY
>>> KEPT SAYING CAMRY DOES NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM. I CALLED ON NUMEROUS
>>> OCCASION AND WANTED THEM TO RECORD THE INCIDENT BUT THEY WOULDN'T.
>>> HAVING EXPERIENCE THIS TWO YEARS AGO I HAVE BEEN SO TERRIFIED TO DRIVE
>>> THE CAR I DRIVE SO SLOWLY NOW. THEY JUST IGNORED ME
>>>
>>> Those are just a few of the many complaints of sudden acceleration
>>> against a singel year/model (2007 Camry).
>>>
>>> Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota
>>> Camry (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67
>>> compliants of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48
>>> complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints of
>>> all types. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all sorts.
>>> The 2007 Honda Accord generated 119 complaints of all sorts
>>>
>>> Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times the
>>> number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival?
>>
>> dude, you either need to get back on the happy pills, or you need to
>> stop prostituting yourself to post this factless ridiculous fabricated
>> bullshit.
>>
>> seriously, how much are you getting paid? and who is writing it for you?
>
> I am getting paid nothing for this. Download the database for yourself,
> Toyota is certainly better than any of the Detroit 3. When Toyota has a
> safety defect it makes front page, when GM does one the media grunts.
>
> I might add, anyone can submit their problems to the government, so if you
> GM transmission craps ont he hiway, report it. I wish I did.


From: Mike Hunter on 9 Feb 2010 10:03
(Cross posting deleted, automatically)

One more YABUT excuse to deflect from the fact Toyota has been ordered to
recall 5.4 MILLION unsafe vehicles all around the world. LOL


"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:-OidnVGxEq_DQO3WnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...
> On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>> "Canuck57"<Canuck57(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:NXJan.72107$U83.4469(a)newsfe10.iad...
>>
>>> YABUT Does not mater what the administration wants to do to pick on
>>> Toyota. Fact remains Toyota came clean and GM& Ford did not until
>>> it became public.


From: Mike Hunter on 9 Feb 2010 10:04
(Cross posting deleted, automatically)

That post was just one more YABUT excuse to deflect from the fact Toyota has
been ordered to recall 5.4 MILLION unsafe vehicles all around the world.
LOL

"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hkrpk8$i3s$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:-OidnVGxEq_DQO3WnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...
>> On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> ....junk of text deleted to save sapce...
>
>>> Just as an aside, there were 708 complaints against the 2007 Toyota
>>> Camry (just this single year / model). The 2007 Ford Fusion has 67
>>> compliants of all sorts. The 2007 Chevrolet Malibu only had 48
>>> complaints of all sorts. The 2007 Nissan Altima had 104 complaints of
>>> all types. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring had 64 complaints of all sorts.
>>> The 2007 Honda Accord generated 119 complaints of all sorts
>>>
>>> Can you really think Toyota has great quality when it has 10 times the
>>> number of complaints as the nearest domestic rival?
>>
>> dude, you either need to get back on the happy pills, or you need to stop
>> prostituting yourself to post this factless ridiculous fabricated
>> bullshit.
>
> You can easily verify everthing posted. Go to
> http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ and search on 2007 Toyota Camry
> (or any other Year / make / model) and see for yourself. I checked again
> today. Here are the results for the last ten years of Camrys (not hybrid,
> not Solara):
>
> * 2000 - 423 complaints of all types / 39 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (3 categories)
> * 2001 - 237 complaints of all types / 20 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (3 categories)
> * 2002 - 740 complaints of all types / 159 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (3 categories)
> * 2003 - 518 complaints of all types / 139 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
> * 2004 - 403 complaints of all types / 96 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (3 categories)
> * 2005 - 332 complaints of all types / 83 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
> * 2006 - 139 complaints of all types / 39 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
> * 2007 - 709 complaints of all types / 165 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
> * 2008 - 86 complaints of all types / 26 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
> * 2009 - 57 complaints of all types / 52 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
> * 2010 - 37 complaints of all types / 13 "vehicle speed control
> complaints" (2 categories)
>
> For some years there were complaints about the operation of the cruise
> control (it is a separate vechicle speed control categoty). I did not
> include those complaints in the number of vehicle speed control complaints
> (I did include "vehicle speed control, vehicle speed control: pedal, and
> vehicle speed control: linkage). In some cases cruise control complaints
> may be related to the recalls, but I thought it might confuse the issue if
> I included those in the totals. My SO's RAV4 cruise control is wachy (it
> goes wild under certain specific conditions) and I can see how this might
> lead to some of the vehicle speed control complaints, but I think that is
> a separate issue.
>
>> seriously, how much are you getting paid? and who is writing it for you?
>
> No one is paying me. Why not ask some of the people who post the Toyota
> excuses those same questions. They seem to follow the standard Toyota
> playbook when it comes to defects - 1) pretend there is not a defect, b)
> claim the defect is not a safety problem, c) misrepresent the statistics
> as much as possible, d) try to divert attention, e) blame the Customers,
> suppliers, or government, f) just before NHTSA issues a mandatory recall,
> announce a voluntary recall and issue a press release saying how much you
> care for your customers.
>
> I don't beleive Toyota builds especially bad vehicles. Some are very good,
> some aren't. But this notion that Toyota "cares" about their Customers
> more than other brands is total BS. The only thing Toyota cares about is
> the bottom line. They want as much of your money as they can get and they
> want to spend as little on fixing defects as they can get away with.
> Toyota could get away with covering up defects when they were a minor
> player. Now that they are number 1 (or close) it isn't so easy to hide.
>
> Ed
>


First  |  Prev  | 
Pages: 1 2
Prev: JoeSpareBedroom, where are you?!
Next: Pro-Toyota Government Influence