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From: jenshi on 15 Aug 2006 01:03
I bought my current car by this Jan. This is my first car. When it did
the inspection, the car changed the new battary. but 2 months later,
the car can't be started, the car was towed to repair center(it is also
a gas station), i was told the the battary was not good and the
charging system(i don't know car, so i don't know how to call it) who
pass the electricity to battary didn't work for the battary, need to
replace both of them, the cost was around $400. Because i don't know
about the car, i don't know whether the car repair center ripped me
off. this was my first car repair experience.
This time my car has problem again, three lights (check, vsc and vsc
off)on when i am driving the car. this time i did the search from
internet before i went to the car repair center. First i went to the
toyota dealer service, i just want to know what's wrong with my car,
but i was told the diagnosis will charge me $220, it is too expensive.
i went back home then went to another car repair center, they charged
me $35 for the trouble code. the trouble code is p0171. The DTC
detecting condition said: when air-fuel ratio feedback is stable after
engine warming up. fuel trim is considerably in error on rich side. The
guy told me: the trouble areas are 1)open or short in A/F
sensor(bank1,2 sensor1) circuit 2/A/F sensor(bank1,2 sensor 1). so i
need to buy two sensors, the sensor price from toyota dealer is $207
each, he said if i repair the car all from him, the total charge is
$405(the parts also from toyota dealer,he said he will give me $187
each). sign, i am really bad luck, the car always give me trouble, like
a momey eater.
Now my questions are:
1)does three lights on, and trouble code is p0171, show the problem
what the guy told me, and i need to replace two sensors? or maybe any
other problems? like air indcution system problem, if so ,is it a
serious problem?
2)if i don't repair it , will they hurt my car, and lead the big
trouble later on?
3)should i go to toyota dealer's service or the place i mentioned above
or other shop. i know from dealer the repair cost is more expensive
than other personal repair center. i don't have ideal how expensive
will be which compare to other shop.but i think the toyota dealer is
more trustable, they won't do bad thing on my car?should i have this
kind of thoughts, i had bad experience before?
Thanks everybody here can help me, i am a female and i don't know about
the car,i am the only driver in my family. so i really need your help
me to tell me what i should do. thanks again.

jennifer

From: Ray O on 15 Aug 2006 01:35

"jenshi" <jennifershi(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155618180.921502.236170(a)b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I bought my current car by this Jan. This is my first car. When it did
> the inspection, the car changed the new battary. but 2 months later,
> the car can't be started, the car was towed to repair center(it is also
> a gas station), i was told the the battary was not good and the
> charging system(i don't know car, so i don't know how to call it) who
> pass the electricity to battary didn't work for the battary, need to
> replace both of them, the cost was around $400. Because i don't know
> about the car, i don't know whether the car repair center ripped me
> off. this was my first car repair experience.
> This time my car has problem again, three lights (check, vsc and vsc
> off)on when i am driving the car. this time i did the search from
> internet before i went to the car repair center. First i went to the
> toyota dealer service, i just want to know what's wrong with my car,
> but i was told the diagnosis will charge me $220, it is too expensive.
> i went back home then went to another car repair center, they charged
> me $35 for the trouble code. the trouble code is p0171. The DTC
> detecting condition said: when air-fuel ratio feedback is stable after
> engine warming up. fuel trim is considerably in error on rich side. The
> guy told me: the trouble areas are 1)open or short in A/F
> sensor(bank1,2 sensor1) circuit 2/A/F sensor(bank1,2 sensor 1). so i
> need to buy two sensors, the sensor price from toyota dealer is $207
> each, he said if i repair the car all from him, the total charge is
> $405(the parts also from toyota dealer,he said he will give me $187
> each). sign, i am really bad luck, the car always give me trouble, like
> a momey eater.
> Now my questions are:
> 1)does three lights on, and trouble code is p0171, show the problem
> what the guy told me, and i need to replace two sensors? or maybe any
> other problems? like air indcution system problem, if so ,is it a
> serious problem?

The Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0171 means that the air-fuel ratio is too
lean, not too rich. When the air-fuel ratio is too lean, it means that
there is not enough fuel in the air-fuel mixture.

I do not think you need to replace 2 sensors. A competent technician should
test the sensor before replacing it to prevent unnecessary replacement of
parts.

I'm not sure what your guy meant by "A/F" sensor. If he meant air flow
sensor, then I do not agree with his diagnosis because an open or a short in
the air flow sensor would give a different DTC.

It is possible that the mass air flow sensor is bad, it is also possible
that the oxygen sensor is bad. In either case, it is possible to test the
sensors instead of blindly replacing them to see if the problem goes away.


> 2)if i don't repair it , will they hurt my car, and lead the big
> trouble later on?

Yes. The vehicle will not pass an emissions test, and a lean fuel mixture
can damage the engine's valves.

> 3)should i go to toyota dealer's service or the place i mentioned above
> or other shop. i know from dealer the repair cost is more expensive
> than other personal repair center. i don't have ideal how expensive
> will be which compare to other shop.but i think the toyota dealer is
> more trustable, they won't do bad thing on my car?should i have this
> kind of thoughts, i had bad experience before?
> Thanks everybody here can help me, i am a female and i don't know about
> the car,i am the only driver in my family. so i really need your help
> me to tell me what i should do. thanks again.
>
> jennifer
>

The Toyota dealer may be less expensive in the long run since they are not
as likely to blindly replace unneeded parts. If you decide to go to an
independent technician, go to a shop with ASE certified technicians or that
is AAA approved.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: jenshi on 15 Aug 2006 10:36
thanks for reply. i did feel strange that the guy even didn't start
the engine, and used the palm analyzer to test it, just 30 seconds, and
printed the trouble code from DVD. then told me to change two sensors,
he even didn't do any further check up to make sure that it is really
the sensors (he said O2 sensors)that go wrong. i just felt something
uncomfortable, so i went back home, go to the internet to seek the
help.


Ray O wrote:

> > 2)if i don't repair it , will they hurt my car, and lead the big
> > trouble later on?
>
> Yes. The vehicle will not pass an emissions test, and a lean fuel mixture
> can damage the engine's valves.
>
> > 3)should i go to toyota dealer's service or the place i mentioned above
> > or other shop. i know from dealer the repair cost is more expensive
> > than other personal repair center. i don't have ideal how expensive
> > will be which compare to other shop.but i think the toyota dealer is
> > more trustable, they won't do bad thing on my car?should i have this
> > kind of thoughts, i had bad experience before?
> > Thanks everybody here can help me, i am a female and i don't know about
> > the car,i am the only driver in my family. so i really need your help
> > me to tell me what i should do. thanks again.
> >
> > jennifer
> >
>
> The Toyota dealer may be less expensive in the long run since they are not
> as likely to blindly replace unneeded parts. If you decide to go to an
> independent technician, go to a shop with ASE certified technicians or that
> is AAA approved.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)

From: Ray O on 15 Aug 2006 11:54

"jenshi" <jennifershi(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155652565.968685.271910(a)b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> thanks for reply. i did feel strange that the guy even didn't start
> the engine, and used the palm analyzer to test it, just 30 seconds, and
> printed the trouble code from DVD.

The engine does not need to started to scan trouble codes.

then told me to change two sensors,
> he even didn't do any further check up to make sure that it is really
> the sensors (he said O2 sensors)that go wrong. i just felt something
> uncomfortable, so i went back home, go to the internet to seek the
> help.
>

The trouble codes tell the technician what to check, not to change ;-)
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: turk on 22 Aug 2006 21:33

Ray O wrote:
> "jenshi" <jennifershi(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155618180.921502.236170(a)b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >I bought my current car by this Jan. This is my first car. When it did
> > the inspection, the car changed the new battary. but 2 months later,
> > the car can't be started, the car was towed to repair center(it is also
> > a gas station), i was told the the battary was not good and the
> > charging system(i don't know car, so i don't know how to call it) who
> > pass the electricity to battary didn't work for the battary, need to
> > replace both of them, the cost was around $400. Because i don't know
> > about the car, i don't know whether the car repair center ripped me
> > off. this was my first car repair experience.
> > This time my car has problem again, three lights (check, vsc and vsc
> > off)on when i am driving the car. this time i did the search from
> > internet before i went to the car repair center. First i went to the
> > toyota dealer service, i just want to know what's wrong with my car,
> > but i was told the diagnosis will charge me $220, it is too expensive.
> > i went back home then went to another car repair center, they charged
> > me $35 for the trouble code. the trouble code is p0171. The DTC
> > detecting condition said: when air-fuel ratio feedback is stable after
> > engine warming up. fuel trim is considerably in error on rich side. The
> > guy told me: the trouble areas are 1)open or short in A/F
> > sensor(bank1,2 sensor1) circuit 2/A/F sensor(bank1,2 sensor 1). so i
> > need to buy two sensors, the sensor price from toyota dealer is $207
> > each, he said if i repair the car all from him, the total charge is
> > $405(the parts also from toyota dealer,he said he will give me $187
> > each). sign, i am really bad luck, the car always give me trouble, like
> > a momey eater.
> > Now my questions are:
> > 1)does three lights on, and trouble code is p0171, show the problem
> > what the guy told me, and i need to replace two sensors? or maybe any
> > other problems? like air indcution system problem, if so ,is it a
> > serious problem?
>
> The Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0171 means that the air-fuel ratio is too
> lean, not too rich. When the air-fuel ratio is too lean, it means that
> there is not enough fuel in the air-fuel mixture.
>
> I do not think you need to replace 2 sensors. A competent technician should
> test the sensor before replacing it to prevent unnecessary replacement of
> parts.
>
> I'm not sure what your guy meant by "A/F" sensor. If he meant air flow
> sensor, then I do not agree with his diagnosis because an open or a short in
> the air flow sensor would give a different DTC.
>
> It is possible that the mass air flow sensor is bad, it is also possible
> that the oxygen sensor is bad. In either case, it is possible to test the
> sensors instead of blindly replacing them to see if the problem goes away.
>
>
> > 2)if i don't repair it , will they hurt my car, and lead the big
> > trouble later on?
>
> Yes. The vehicle will not pass an emissions test, and a lean fuel mixture
> can damage the engine's valves.
>
> > 3)should i go to toyota dealer's service or the place i mentioned above
> > or other shop. i know from dealer the repair cost is more expensive
> > than other personal repair center. i don't have ideal how expensive
> > will be which compare to other shop.but i think the toyota dealer is
> > more trustable, they won't do bad thing on my car?should i have this
> > kind of thoughts, i had bad experience before?
> > Thanks everybody here can help me, i am a female and i don't know about
> > the car,i am the only driver in my family. so i really need your help
> > me to tell me what i should do. thanks again.
> >
> > jennifer
> >
>
> The Toyota dealer may be less expensive in the long run since they are not
> as likely to blindly replace unneeded parts. If you decide to go to an
> independent technician, go to a shop with ASE certified technicians or that
> is AAA approved.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)

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