What does cdi mean?
in [Toyota]
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From: dr_jeff on 22 Feb 2010 21:45 Tegger wrote: > dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in > news:E7udnZwyivdkvx7WnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d(a)giganews.com: > >> Tegger wrote: >>> dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in >>> news:9YOdneqL4rI9eBzWnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d(a)giganews.com: >>> >>>> Tegger wrote: >>>>> Had to make a store run this afternoon, and one place I parked >>>>> there was a Mercedes diesel van that looked a LOT like a Sprinter. >>>>> There, on the grille, was a large notation, "CDI". And it was >>>>> /definitely/ a diesel. >>>> I looked at the Dodge site. There is no Dodge Sprinter listed. No >>>> Dodge Ram van either. So Dodge doesn't have a full-size van for the >>>> first time in my life. >>> >>> >>> They sell a Dodge Sprinter in the Canadian market. I see them >>> everywhere. /Very/ popular with businesses. >>> <http://www.fleetchrysler.ca/en/Sprinter_2010.php> >>> >>> I suspect they're not sold in the US for the emissions reasons I >>> mentioned before. >> They are sold in the US by a new division of Diamler. > > > > The name is actually DAimler, not DiAmler. > > Daimler is a German name, bequeathed by Gottlieb Daimler, whose company > was joined with Karl Benz's in 1926. When I wanted to find the Wikipedia Daimler-Benz page, I learned that there is a British company with the name "Daimler" that makes cars, too. I probably read about some time ago, but forgot about it. When I say Daimler, below, I mean only the German company. Sorry, I donn't spel to wel. >> The Dodge >> Sprinter has always been made and built by Diamler (although the cargo >> version was partly disassembled in Germany and reassembled in the US >> to avoid some taxes). They are still sold in the US by a divison of >> Diamler. >> >> http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/ > > > > Yes! Now I remember reading about these recently in Forbes magazine. > Apparently there is an LBJ-era 25% tariff on foreign commercial trucks, > which does not apply to passenger trucks. This makes foreign commercials > prohibitively expensive in the US. The tariff, believe it or not, was > retaliation for some long-forgotten trade fight over US-to-Europe > chicken products, somewhere around 1965. I was born that year and love chicken. Coincidence? I guess Congress wanted to keep me well fed or something. ;-) > IIRC, the Sprinters are actually assembled in Turkey, but with passenger > seats installed. The vans are shipped to a US port (can't remember > which) and officially imported as passenger vans. Then the seats are > removed and sent back to Turkey, and the vans are sold off as > commercials. This little dance avoids the 25% tariff. I haven't read anything about them being built in Turkey, although Daimler-Benz does have assembly there. The Wikipedia page didn't say anything about Mercedes-Benz selling the new van, either, so it doesn't have everything. It does talk about them being built in South Carolina. It also says they are being built for Freightliner, which is owned by Daimler AG, but no longer sells the Sprint (it did for a while), which is inaccurate. However, Mercedes Benz Van, the new division that does build the van does list South Carolina as an assembly location. http://www.daimler.com/company/business-units/mercedes-benz-vans/locations >> Why would Diamler want a different company (aka Dodge or Chrysler) >> sell their trucks when they can do it themselves? When Diamler and >> Chrysler split up (after there merger of equals), Dodge was left >> without a full-size van. > > > Chrysler has not been particularly well-managed since WPC died. They > have made numerous and serious tactical mistakes that have kept the > company on the verge of disaster ever since. Wouldn't surprise me if > this is one of those mistakes. The Dodge Ram van was getting too old. Daimler-Benz (now spelled correctly, thanks), decided that they would sell the Daimler-Benz van as a Dodge, which was then part of Daimler-Benz. However, when the merger of equals didn't work out, Daimler AG decided that they are more interested in keeping the sales in their family than assuring Dodge a new big van. >> You'll also note that Canada's Chrysler division is only selling 2009 >> models, not 2010 models. >> > > > 2010 MY is in a different place: > <http://www.fleetchrysler.ca/en/pdf/2010_Fleet_Cat.pdf> > These puppies are way too popular for Chrysler to avoind selling them > for 2010. Actually, the Dodge Truck 2010 brochure lists 2009 Dodge Sprinters, not 2010 Sprinters. Mercedes Benz lists the 2010 Sprinter on their page: http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/index.cfm?Language=english&id=285 That's what I meant when I said that Dodge Canada is only selling 2009 Dodge Sprinters. Jeff
From: Clive on 23 Feb 2010 06:36 In message <UKCdnZ5UQfyw3B7WnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> writes > Daimler-Benz van as a Dodge, which was then part of Daimler-Benz. >However, when the merger of equals didn't work out, I would even pretend that Chrysler was an equal to Daimler Benz, the quality difference between the two was immense. -- Clive
From: Tegger on 23 Feb 2010 07:59 dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in news:UKCdnZ5UQfyw3B7WnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d(a)giganews.com: > > Actually, the Dodge Truck 2010 brochure lists 2009 Dodge Sprinters, > not 2010 Sprinters. Mercedes Benz lists the 2010 Sprinter on their > page: http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/index.cfm?Language=english&id=285 > > That's what I meant when I said that Dodge Canada is only selling 2009 > Dodge Sprinters. > I read more carefully, and you're right. Chrysler is evidently just selling-off old stock. -- Tegger
From: C. E. White on 23 Feb 2010 09:36 "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D27D08CA1B96tegger(a)208.90.168.18... > Yes! Now I remember reading about these recently in Forbes magazine. > Apparently there is an LBJ-era 25% tariff on foreign commercial > trucks, > which does not apply to passenger trucks. This makes foreign > commercials > prohibitively expensive in the US. The tariff, believe it or not, > was > retaliation for some long-forgotten trade fight over US-to-Europe > chicken products, somewhere around 1965. > > IIRC, the Sprinters are actually assembled in Turkey, but with > passenger > seats installed. The vans are shipped to a US port (can't remember > which) and officially imported as passenger vans. Then the seats are > removed and sent back to Turkey, and the vans are sold off as > commercials. This little dance avoids the 25% tariff. Ahh, the Chicken War Tariff. This was way back (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,874857,00.html). As you mentioned it was instituted to punish the Europeans becasue of a dispute over chicken imports into Europe. The US was looking for a tariff to punish the European in a proportionate manner. Back then the only light trucks imported into the US were VW "pick-ups" based on the micro bus. Have you ever seen one? I have. Weird (but so were the Corvair based pick-ups). I don't think it is Daimler bolting and unbolting seats - I think it is Ford (see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125357990638429655.html ) I think the Daimler is handling the Sprinter by patially disassembling the vans. See http://hooniverse.com/blog/2009/12/05/the-freightliner-sprinter-and-how-daimler-and-other-companies-manage-to-dodge-the-chicken-tax/ . In the 60's/70's when Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda began importing light trucks, they used similar creative means to get around the chicken tariff. Back then, Toyota sent the trucks with the beds mounted above the chassis with a wooden spacers in between the chassis and the bed. When the trucks reached the US, the beds were lifted up, the blocks were removed, and the beds bolted in place. The trucks and beds were considered imported unfinished vehicles and parts and not subject to the 25% tax. The final assembly (bolting the bed to the chassis) was done in the US. Nissan and Mazda shipped cab/chassis units to the US, and installed US manufacturerd beds once they arrived. My Father had a late 70's Ford Courier (a rebadged Mazda). The truck was "apple green." When new the Japanese manufacturered cab and the US manufactured bed matched perfectly. Three years later they were two completely different colors. (and don't get me started on the engine - a Brazilian built Ford 2.3L Pinto four with a Japanese carburetor and distributor - a parts nightmare - all done in the name of circumventing trade rules and tariffs). Other references: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6806 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/opinion/12fri4.html Ed
From: Tegger on 23 Feb 2010 10:10 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in news:hm0ppj$k93$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: > > I don't think it is Daimler bolting and unbolting seats - I think it > is Ford (see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125357990638429655.html ) I wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly, which is why I prepended "IIRC" to my comment (plus I was too lazy to look it up). > I think the Daimler is handling the Sprinter by patially disassembling > the vans. See > http://hooniverse.com/blog/2009/12/05/the-freightliner-sprinter-and-how > -daimler-and-other-companies-manage-to-dodge-the-chicken-tax/ . I sit corrected. > > In the 60's/70's when Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda began importing light > trucks, they used similar creative means to get around the chicken > tariff. You can add Subaru to that list. Remember those hard-plastic rear-facing seats in the bed of the BRAT? Another tax dodge; those seats turned a potential "commercial" into a "passenger" vehicle. -- Tegger
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