What I learnt from charging my Prius
in [Toyota Prius]
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From: Daniel who wants to know on 4 Jan 2010 17:01 "urod" <npisarev(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:a12df27e-9663-4c0d-83e8-3b65b5c1739b(a)q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > On 4 $B'q'_'S(B, 17:36, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >> >> The batteries are not interconnected, and there's no way they could be. >> The batteries running the drive system are 280V at very high current. >> Every bulb in the car would probably explode at that voltage, and so >> would >> the 12V battery if exposed to this voltage. Hopefully, this person won't >> go running out to his Prius to try to conect one system to the other. If >> he does, I hope his insurance is paid up... > > That I understand, but I suspect there is a step-down DC to DC > converter > hidden somewhere in the car, so that the big battery could charge the > small one. There is a DC-DC converter built in to the inverter unit under the hood. It is current limited and fused at 100 amps on the 12V side.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 4 Jan 2010 12:12 On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:33:02 -0800, urod wrote: > On 4 янв, 17:36, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >> >> The batteries are not interconnected, and there's no way they could be. >> The batteries running the drive system are 280V at very high current. >> Every bulb in the car would probably explode at that voltage, and so >> would the 12V battery if exposed to this voltage. Hopefully, this person >> won't go running out to his Prius to try to conect one system to the >> other. If he does, I hope his insurance is paid up... > > That I understand, but I suspect there is a step-down DC to DC converter > hidden somewhere in the car, so that the big battery could charge the > small one. Not on any Prius I ever saw. Once the 12V is dead, the car will not run. There may be, but if the 12V dies, you can't turn the car on.
From: urod on 4 Jan 2010 17:31 1. > If the interior lights and personal lights [are] on when the door is not full closed or the interior light switch [is] in [the] door position, the lights will go off automatically after 20 minutes." > Looks like the 2010 has the feature you want but only if you have the light switch in the door position. In other words, if you manually switch the lights on (not in door position) and leave them on, the battery will be drained. Nope. The interior light switch has 3 positions "off", "door", and "on". I left it in the "on" position. As far as I understand this text, only the "door" position is protected. 2. >> It's hard to charge a battery > Not at all. You put a battery charger to it. You DO mean the 12v battery that the user interfaces with, right? Because that's the ONLY battery you interface with, the ONLY battery you would be charging Here is what I did. (1) I bought a car battery charger (namely, Hella power-charger) and put it to the 12V battery. Nothing happened. I waited for 30 minutes. Nothing happened still. Maybe the charger was defective. (2) With two cables, I connected the 12V battery to the 12V battery of another car. I hit the Power button, my car turned on. The power meter showed half-full 200V battery (5 blue lines). The system did not switch on the engine. I waited for 1 minute. (3) I disconnected the 12V battery. My car turned off. I hit the Power button. Nothing. Not surprising at all, considering that the system hadn't switch on the engine at the previous step, so it couldn't charge the 12V battery. (4) I connected the batteries again and turned the joystick to the "R" (Reverse) position. The road was tilted downwards, so the system switched on the engine, which started to charge the battery. Only this way I was able to charge it. (5) After disconnection the batteries, the power meter showed almost empty 200V battery (1 red line). I cannot explain the behaviour of the power meter, unless two batteries are interconnected (via DC-DC converter)
From: Mike Hunter on 4 Jan 2010 18:13 You are confused! The Volt, unlike the Prius hybrid, is a true electric vehicle. The only thing its engine does is drive the generator. The Volt could be left "on" indefinitely, there is no flow of current until you active the motor. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-CDB2CA.15302004012010(a)nothing.attdns.com... > In article > <23744dc9-0546-4f41-a16c-3fecdbc35487(a)l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > urod <npisarev(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> 0. Some people in the newsgroups write things they don't have a clue >> about. >> 1. The Prius batteries are somehow interconnected. When I forgot to >> switch off the light, *both* were discharged. > > The ONLY way they're connected is that the car needs the 12v battery to > turn on the car, which means engaging the drive system (and its > integrated electrical component). If the 12v battery goes dead, the > relays that turn on the drive system don't open. The drive system is > isolated and drains no energy, either from its gasoline component or its > electrical storage component. > > Charge up your 12v battery, or put in a new one, and it will turn the > car on and close the relays that engage the electrical component of the > drive system. No problem. > > Now: should you leave the car turned ON, and you leave lights on, and > then it runs out of gas, you will exhaust the entire drive system, and > it will turn off. Then the 12v battery takes over, and then IT > exhausts, and you have nothing left in the system whatsoever. > > This is just like any other car. Any GM would do the same thing. > > It would pay for you to examine just how your car works before making > incorrect assumptions and statements. > > > >> 2. It is hard to charge the battery. > > Not at all. You put a battery charger to it. You DO mean the 12v > battery that the user interfaces with, right? Because that's the ONLY > battery you interface with, the ONLY battery you would be charging. > > Again, read up on your car if you're interested. You'll find that the > traction battery (which the user never interfaces with) is charged when > the car is delivered to the dealer. Should the dealer service dept have > to replace a traction battery (let's say there's been an accident), > there's a unique machine that travels to that dealership to support > charging the traction battery after a new one has been installed. > > It's not as simple as "turn the car on and let it do its thing". > > >> 3. All, or almost all, automobiles are poorly designed. They should >> switch off the light when the battery is close to be discharged. > > The 12v battery, you mean. I agree. My Honda has a system that turns > off interior lights after 5 minutes of leaving the door open. You have > to pay for the top trim level to get that, though--and if you use the > pushbuttons to turn on the interior lights, it leaves them on > regardless. When you have kids playing around in a van, that's going to > happen. Sucks. It's not rocket science to fix that--but neither Honda > nor Toyota has bothered. > > >> 4. This has nothing to do with charging, but another problem with all >> cars is, if you raise the parking brake during movement (in case of >> Prius, stomp on the parking brake), it is a guaranteed accident. > > ummmmm....yeah? So? If you stick a knife in your eye, you'll hurt > yourself. I can go on and on stating the blindingly obvious. Why is > this a problem in your universe? > > > >> No, I never raised the parking brake, but the thought that if I did, I >> could die or kill somebody else, is uncomfortable. > > you know, if you're going down the highway at highway speeds and you cut > the wheel 180 degrees, you're going to have an accident and involve > other people on the road as well. Why is any of this a problem for you? > > If you're uncomfortable with the fact that PHYSICS WORKS, maybe you > should sit home in a plastic bubble. > > > >> 5. Manual for Prius is poorly written. > > Sure, it could be better. On the other hand, a reasonably intelligent > person--say, someone who actually has $25K to spend on a car--won't have > any problems getting through it. > > > >> I am now going to sell my Prius and never buy any car until car >> manufacturers start to make cars at least as intelligent as a pocket >> calculator. > > And everyone benefits.
From: Daniel who wants to know on 4 Jan 2010 18:13
"urod" <npisarev(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:1b702ee8-f984-4f57-be25-96ddeba7391b(a)e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > > (1) I bought a car battery charger (namely, Hella power-charger) and > put it to the 12V battery. Nothing happened. I waited for 30 > minutes. Nothing happened still. Maybe the charger was defective. New switched mode chargers will not turn on unless they sense some minimum voltage of the correct polarity on the leads. If the 12v is discharged to 0 volts the charger won't turn on. In this case you need an old "dumb" charger to bring the voltage up so that the "smart" charger will start charging. > (2) With two cables, I connected the 12V battery to the 12V battery of > another car. I hit the Power button, my car turned on. The power > meter showed half-full 200V battery (5 blue lines). The system did > not switch on the engine. I waited for 1 minute. You probaly didn't push the brake pedal far enough and the car was in IG-ON mode instead of READY mode. > (3) I disconnected the 12V battery. My car turned off. I hit the > Power button. Nothing. Not surprising at all, considering that the > system hadn't switch on the engine at the previous step, so it > couldn't charge the 12V battery. 12V charge has nothing to do with the engine running as the car does not have a 12v starter or alternator. > (4) I connected the batteries again and turned the joystick to the > "R" (Reverse) position. The road was tilted downwards, so the system > switched on the engine, which started to charge the battery. Only > this way I was able to charge it. You must have managed to hit READY instead of IG-ON this time. > (5) After disconnection the batteries, the power meter showed almost > empty 200V battery (1 red line). I cannot explain the behaviour of > the power meter, unless two batteries are interconnected (via DC-DC > converter) The DC-DC is only active any time the READY symbol is lit up so 12V charge is only dependant on READY it has nothing to do with anything else. READY is also a sign that the system main relays on the HV battery are closed and allowing power to the inverter. NIMH state of charge cannot be determined by voltage alone so the battery ECU has to guess what the SoC is any time 12v power is lost. You could probably disconnect and reconnect the 12v battery 5 times and get a different HV SoC reading each time. FWIW 1 pink/red bar is actually 40% SoC and all green bars is actually 80-82% SoC. This 40-80% window is the main part of why the battery lasts as long as it does. |