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From: Ray O on 10 Sep 2009 17:33

"SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4aa935aa$0$1676$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> Ray O wrote:
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4aa91c51$0$1636$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>>> Ray O wrote:
>>>> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4aa88273$0$1587$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>>>>> I guess this is the month for the check engine light in our Toyotas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today, in my 2001 4Runner, the Check Engine Light, the VSC Off and the
>>>>> VSC Trac lights all came on at the same time.
>>>>>
>>>>> The OBD Code is P1135, which apparently is "A/F ratio sensor". How
>>>>> could this be related to the VSC lights?
>>>> We had the same problem with the O2 sensor in our Avalon. Fixed the O2
>>>> sensor and the VSC and Trac lights turned off.
>>>>
>>>> My guess is that the throttle retarding function for the VSC/Trac uses
>>>> the signal from the O2 sensor or air/fuel sensor when cutting fuel.
>>> From reading other people's experience with the same problem, some
>>> people are saying the 02 sensor and some are saying the A/F Ratio
>>> sensor. Are these the same thing?
>>
>> The air/fuel, or "A/F" sensor, and the O2 sensor basically perform the
>> same function, which is to tell the vehicle engine computer whether the
>> ratio of fuel to air is rich or lean. A/F sensors give a linear signal
>> which tells the vehicle's engine electronic control unit, or ECU exactly
>> what the air fuel ratio is, while O2 sensors just tell the ECU whether
>> the ratio is rich or lean. I believe that Toyota uses A/F sensors in
>> some vehicles with CA emissions and O2 sensors in vehicles with Federal
>> emissions.
>
> Thanks. I see that now. It's a California model. Also I notice that
> beginning in 2001, the rear oxygen sensor changed on the 4Runner from a
> flange type to a screw-in type.

You're welcome!

The change from flange mount to screw-in mounts for O2 sensors apparently
varied from year to year and depending on model. I think the larger
threaded area for the screw-in type made stripping threads less likely than
on the 2 smaller studs for the flange mounts.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: SMS on 10 Sep 2009 22:13
Ray O wrote:

> You're welcome!
>
> The change from flange mount to screw-in mounts for O2 sensors apparently
> varied from year to year and depending on model. I think the larger
> threaded area for the screw-in type made stripping threads less likely than
> on the 2 smaller studs for the flange mounts.

I had the air/fuel ratio sensor replaced today and all is well again.
$153 + tax for the Denso 234-9002 which hopefully is pretty close to the
Toyota OEM part since Denso is a Toyota company. The mechanic did not
charge me any labor (well it's my brother-in-law's shop). It took the
mechanic only about five minutes to change once the part arrived from
the parts supplier (fortunately the bolts were not rusted). My
brother-in-law showed me his box of old A/F sensors as he changes a lot
of them and saves them because someone comes by and pays him for the old
sensors because apparently they have enough platinum in them to make it
worthwhile. As with most of these heated sensors, it's not the sensor
part that goes bad, it's the resistive heating element. He had some of
the Denso sensors in stock but they're so expensive that he doesn't
stock a lot of them.

While he works on a lot of Toyotas and he goes to Toyota classes at the
local college where Toyota has an auto-technology program, he was still
surprised that the VSC lights come on at the same time the check engine
light comes on with the P1135 code. You'd think that this would be
mentioned somewhere in the manufacturer code listing but it isn't, at
least not in the book he had.

Someone in a forum had mentioned that it was a good idea to change the
rear oxygen sensor at the same time as the air/fuel ratio sensor, but
the mechanic said to forget it, that the rear sensors rarely go bad
unless the catalytic converter fails.

Amusingly, in a search for the Denso sensor, I found that Amazon had the
best price, "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5YCYS" at $132.
From: Ray O on 11 Sep 2009 01:20

"SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4aa9b226$0$1622$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> Ray O wrote:
>
>> You're welcome!
>>
>> The change from flange mount to screw-in mounts for O2 sensors apparently
>> varied from year to year and depending on model. I think the larger
>> threaded area for the screw-in type made stripping threads less likely
>> than on the 2 smaller studs for the flange mounts.
>
> I had the air/fuel ratio sensor replaced today and all is well again. $153
> + tax for the Denso 234-9002 which hopefully is pretty close to the Toyota
> OEM part since Denso is a Toyota company. The mechanic did not charge me
> any labor (well it's my brother-in-law's shop). It took the mechanic only
> about five minutes to change once the part arrived from the parts supplier
> (fortunately the bolts were not rusted). My brother-in-law showed me his
> box of old A/F sensors as he changes a lot of them and saves them because
> someone comes by and pays him for the old sensors because apparently they
> have enough platinum in them to make it worthwhile. As with most of these
> heated sensors, it's not the sensor part that goes bad, it's the resistive
> heating element. He had some of the Denso sensors in stock but they're so
> expensive that he doesn't stock a lot of them.
>
> While he works on a lot of Toyotas and he goes to Toyota classes at the
> local college where Toyota has an auto-technology program, he was still
> surprised that the VSC lights come on at the same time the check engine
> light comes on with the P1135 code. You'd think that this would be
> mentioned somewhere in the manufacturer code listing but it isn't, at
> least not in the book he had.
>
> Someone in a forum had mentioned that it was a good idea to change the
> rear oxygen sensor at the same time as the air/fuel ratio sensor, but the
> mechanic said to forget it, that the rear sensors rarely go bad unless the
> catalytic converter fails.
>
> Amusingly, in a search for the Denso sensor, I found that Amazon had the
> best price, "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5YCYS" at $132.

Ironically, my wife said that the check engine light, VSC, and TRAC lights
came on in our Sequoia today. I got out my trusty OBD II code scanner and
came up with P0051, which is heated O2 sensor heater control circuit low for
bank 2 sensor 1, which is basically the same condition you had, but with an
O2 sensor instead of A/F sensor.

I'll check the sensor out in the daylight.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: SMS on 11 Sep 2009 13:23
Ray O wrote:

> Ironically, my wife said that the check engine light, VSC, and TRAC lights
> came on in our Sequoia today.

Uh oh, it might be some sort of pandemic.
From: Ray O on 11 Sep 2009 15:00

"SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4aaa8754$0$1636$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> Ray O wrote:
>
>> Ironically, my wife said that the check engine light, VSC, and TRAC
>> lights came on in our Sequoia today.
>
> Uh oh, it might be some sort of pandemic.

I think your post was the second complaint of the problem this week, and
mine is the third...
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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