Toyota Recall: Scandal, Media Circus, and Stupid Drivers - Editorial
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From: Mike Hunter on 24 Feb 2010 11:37 You do that. But I would suggest you first search the Congressional Record for the facts about Firestone tires on Explorers. ;) "Clive" <clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:8OhljcJURVhLFwoX(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk... > In message <b_udneb-1N3iNBnWnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, jim beam > <me(a)privacy.net> writes >>false bullshit about tires when the tires have nothing to do with it. > I don't know about America, but we had a problem with Explorers rolling > and killing the occupants.In some cases, it was shown that the tyres of > some of the cars had "delaminated" and each tyre was supposed to have a > batch No. which could pin it down to which plant, which shift and > therefore the operator, but all of the delaminated tyres had no such > markings. I think the conclusion was that the tyres were possibly > imitation, but I'm not sure, you'd have to go back over the records to > find out. > -- > Clive >
From: jim beam on 24 Feb 2010 22:38 On 02/24/2010 08:31 AM, Clive wrote: > In message <b_udneb-1N3iNBnWnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, jim beam > <me(a)privacy.net> writes >> false bullshit about tires when the tires have nothing to do with it. > I don't know about America, but we had a problem with Explorers rolling > and killing the occupants.In some cases, it was shown that the tyres of > some of the cars had "delaminated" and each tyre was supposed to have a > batch No. which could pin it down to which plant, which shift and > therefore the operator, but all of the delaminated tyres had no such > markings. I think the conclusion was that the tyres were possibly > imitation, but I'm not sure, you'd have to go back over the records to > find out. if you believe that story, you've been suckered. delamination is simply one form of tire failure - there are many others. but as far as the stability problem on the exploder is concerned, the tire failure mode is completely immaterial - the vehicle will still likely roll whether the tire goes flat from delamination, broken bottle or sniper fire. not only is that completely unacceptable, it was a known fault prior to production. they didn't even put run-flat tires on it! instead, hundreds of people died as a result of the decision to proceed with production with this fault. when caught, rather than admit the fault and pay punitive damages to the families of those they deliberately decided to kill, frod spent millions lobbying to avoid any criminal investigation and millions filling the media with bullshit about it being the tires fault. again, no vehicle should roll and crush it's occupants just because of a flat. ever. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Clive on 25 Feb 2010 07:43 In message <pPOdnRlnxOJfbRjWnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, jim beam <me(a)privacy.net> writes >instead, hundreds of people died as a result of the decision to proceed >with production with this fault. when caught, rather than admit the >fault and pay punitive damages to the families of those they >deliberately decided to kill, frod spent millions lobbying to avoid any >criminal investigation and millions filling the media with bullshit >about it being the tires fault. again, no vehicle should roll and >crush it's occupants just because of a flat. ever. I'm not claiming that delamination of a tyre is a good reason for a car rolling over and killing it's occupants. I'm simply informing you as to what was found on some of the vehicles that rolled over in the UK. -- Clive
From: C. E. White on 25 Feb 2010 11:42 "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:b_udneb-1N3iNBnWnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > so how much do you charge ed? seriously. you post in office hours, > so either you're being paid to do it or you're doing it on your > employer's time - another ethical issue. my money's on the former > since none of what you write is either factual or original. and you > steadfastly avoid the elephant in the room: why you can post > bullshit about toyota while ignoring the much more substantial and > ethical challenge of why frod can deliberately [and profitably] kill > hundreds without your slightest censure. I have disputed this many times. I posted links that disporove you allegations. You ignore those and just repat the same nonsense. As far as Explorers are concerned the facts are clear: 1) Explorers from the 90's had lower than average accident, injury and death rates (compared to all vehicles, not just SUVs). You can verify this by checking the data available at teh IIHS website. 2) Explorers had lower rollover rates and lower rollover death rates that other comparale midsized SUVs from the same era. You can confirm this by reviewing previously posted links. 3) NHTSA confirmed that Explorers had accident, injury, and death rates similar (or better than) comparable vehciles from the time period. 4) The engineering memo's trial lawyer (and you) like to quote weren't hidden by Ford and didn't even apply to post 2004 Explorers. The defective tires were installed on Explorers with completely different suspension than the models referenced in the engineering documents. I've pointed you to sources that confirm this. You ignore that inconvenient truth. Most SUVs are not as stable as cars. Despite this, most SUV have better death and injury statistics than most cars. Explorers actually have very good accident and injury statistics. Go check the facts. Explorers had better accident statistics than 4Runner from the same era, and had stronger roofs than 4Runners from the same era. One more thing, mid-90's 4Runner had the same tire pressure recommendations as Ford Explorers. If you think Ford should be punished for the design of Explorers, what should be done to Toyota for selling the far more dangerous 4Runner at the same time? Answer that.. Ed
From: jim beam on 25 Feb 2010 23:27
On 02/25/2010 04:43 AM, Clive wrote: > In message <pPOdnRlnxOJfbRjWnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, jim beam > <me(a)privacy.net> writes >> instead, hundreds of people died as a result of the decision to >> proceed with production with this fault. when caught, rather than >> admit the fault and pay punitive damages to the families of those they >> deliberately decided to kill, frod spent millions lobbying to avoid >> any criminal investigation and millions filling the media with >> bullshit about it being the tires fault. again, no vehicle should roll >> and crush it's occupants just because of a flat. ever. > I'm not claiming that delamination of a tyre is a good reason for a car > rolling over and killing it's occupants. I'm simply informing you as to > what was found on some of the vehicles that rolled over in the UK. > -- > Clive > did they not find that the vehicle still continued to roll and kill it's occupants, /regardless/ of the tire manufacturer or it's failure mode? -- nomina rutrum rutrum |