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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 26 May 2010 16:05
On Wed, 26 May 2010 03:37:16 -0500, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:

>> So, I want a good strut, moderate performance, and won't break down
>> after a couple years. ANy techs/performance guys have an idea which
>> would be a good all-around strut (Other than the Koni yellows, of
>> course!
>
> I need rear struts for my old Camry, just getting something like the
> factory struts would be plenty good enough for the kind of driving I do.
> What I'm wondering is, the car bottoms out now on big bumps and I'm
> wondering if I need stronger springs or is new struts will take care of
> that problem.

How old/how many miles? Springs are usually good for the "life" of the
car, but after 21 years of almost 4100 lbs on them...

The bottoming is most likely caused by the springs and/or worn bushings.
It took me a LONG time to find aftermarket bushings for the Supra (I got a
whole set of front bushings for what Toyota wanted for TWO bushings!) but
your car is just a bit more common, so it shouldn't be a problem.


From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 26 May 2010 16:22
On Tue, 25 May 2010 23:00:58 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:

> On 05/25/2010 10:21 PM, Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>> Cross posting because there are people in each group who might be able
>> to help with this one.
>>
>> I think it's known I have a number of cars, and as such I try to stay on
>> the "cheap" side of parts.
>>
>> The subject this time is my '88 Supra. ~215,000 miles, tired springs,
>> dry rotting strut mounts, and worn bushings.
>>
>> I have a set of springs from an '88 that had Eibachs installed at 20,000
>> miles, so they should be good. They sure *look* new!
>>
>> I got Energy Suspension bushings from AutoZone ( I was surprised to see
>> them because in the past two years, NO ONE had them!) They are black, I
>> believe they are polyurethane. I'll know tomorrow...
>>
>> Now, shocks. I believe Toyotas come with Tokico shocks OEM.
>>
>> I can get Koni adjustables from Tire Rack for ~$100 each. A lot of
>> Supra owners say these are the BEST for all around driving. I find the
>> price a bit much...
>>
>> KYBs, which I used to think were a good strut are ~$50, but I don't
>> think they're as good as they used to be. They do come with a Lifetime
>> warranty.
>>
>> Tokicos run ~$58-100, with "Performance"~$78
>>
>> Bilsteins for this car are ~$110
>>
>> Gabriels ~$50
>>
>> So, I want a good strut, moderate performance, and won't break down
>> after a couple years. ANy techs/performance guys have an idea which
>> would be a good all-around strut (Other than the Koni yellows, of
>> course!
>
> Personally, I would go with the Konis or Bilsteins. I have not had good
> luck with KYBs. I have no experience with Tokico. Probably not
> applicable to a Supra but the Gabriels on my Studebaker feel a little
> underdamped.
>
> I've had Konis on both my Scirocco and 944 and love 'em... Also Bilsteins
> on the rear of the 944 to replace some almost-new KYBs which were rattling
> badly.
>
> Let's put it this way... I love Konis so much I am trying to figure out
> how to fit them to my Studebaker and have gone so far as to buy a pair of
> rear shocks for a 70's Camaro which I believe can be modded to fit.
>
> nate


I can get Gabriels and Monroes just about anywhere for this car. KYB are
the next most common. The Konis and the Tokicos are the tough ones. Ebay
has whole sets of Tokicos for this car for ~$240.


From: N8N on 26 May 2010 16:29
On May 26, 12:00 pm, S <jerni...(a)chester.uccs.edu> wrote:

> I run Koni's on my current autoX car, a '91 Miata (CSP), with very
> stiff springs (like 500/350). They work very well, but I can't comment
> on longevity

I believe Koni still has a lifetime warranty (for the original
purchaser only, and only for the car on which they were originally
installed)

nate
From: weelliott on 27 May 2010 09:23
On May 25, 10:21 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote:
> Cross posting because there are people in each group who might be able to
> help with this one.
>
> I think it's known I have a number of cars, and as such I try to stay on
> the "cheap" side of parts.
>
> The subject this time is my '88 Supra. ~215,000 miles, tired springs, dry
> rotting strut mounts, and worn bushings.
>
> I have a set of springs from an '88 that had Eibachs installed at 20,000
> miles, so they should be good. They sure *look* new!
>
> I got Energy Suspension bushings from AutoZone ( I was surprised to see
> them because in the past two years, NO ONE had them!) They are black, I
> believe they are polyurethane. I'll know tomorrow...
>
> Now, shocks. I believe Toyotas come with Tokico shocks OEM.
>
> I can get Koni adjustables from Tire Rack for ~$100 each. A lot of Supra
> owners say these are the BEST for all around driving. I find the price a
> bit much...
>
> KYBs, which I used to think were a good strut are ~$50, but I don't think
> they're as good as they used to be. They do come with a Lifetime warranty.
>
> Tokicos run ~$58-100, with "Performance"~$78
>
> Bilsteins for this car are ~$110
>
> Gabriels ~$50
>
> So, I want a good strut, moderate performance, and won't break down after
> a couple years. ANy techs/performance guys have an idea which would be a
> good all-around strut (Other than the Koni yellows, of course!

I had the delimna of what shocks to get for my miata and was able to
drive many other owner's cars before I settled on what to get. I was
looking into the Konis, Tokicos, and Bilstein HDs. I had had Konis on
my MR2 and liked the adjustability of them even though it took a whil
to figure it out since it isn't really linear. The Tokicos were
cheaper, so they made the list. The Bilsteins were not adjustable, and
people said they were too stiff in stock form. I called up a friend
who knows more abotu spring damper systems than I woudl ever care to
know. He worked as an engineer on Sarah Fisher's team(IRL).

He pointed out that Konis only adjust the rebound, so they give good
performance in some band-aid sort of ways. For instance if you crank
the rebound damping way up it will effectively cause the car to get
sucked down as you go through a slalom since the side that is
unloading doesn't have time to fully unload. This helps in some cars
and not in others depending on where your roll centers are and how you
are aligned. They are not adjustable in bump though. He pointed out
that a good non-adjustable shock optimized to the spring rates will
usually outperform an adjustable shock unless you have a support team
of engineers, and sometimes that won't even help you. He suggested
going with a custom valved Bilstein HD. It uses a different type of
valve that is apparently far superior to the Koni valves. I contacted
a guy named John Stimola in NY and got a quiote for four shocks at
nearly 200 a pop, but they were cusomized to the springs.

I hesitated on ordering them since that was a lot of money. I then got
to drive a car with custom valved HDs, although valved by someone
other that Stimola, and I was sold. The car was a dream. It handled
beautifully, but soaked up bumps as well as a stock miata. I was ready
to pull the trigger on the order when some idiot aggressive driver in
a 300zx crashed into my miata. Once the judge granted me the money for
that I realized that since my car was now considered a crashed car its
value wouldn't be more than 1500 bucks, and it didn't really make
sense to put 1500 bucks worth of springs, coilover perches, bump stops
and shocks on it. But I am still convinced that custom valved Bilstein
HDs are the way to go.

I don't have John's info any more, but if you search around I'm sure
you can find him. His name comes up on SCCA forums. He's pretty well
known on the east coast and goes ot most of the big SCCA autocrossing
events.
From: 1 Lucky Texan on 27 May 2010 12:32
On May 27, 8:23 am, weelliott <weelli...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 10:21 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Cross posting because there are people in each group who might be able to
> > help with this one.
>
> > I think it's known I have a number of cars, and as such I try to stay on
> > the "cheap" side of parts.
>
> > The subject this time is my '88 Supra. ~215,000 miles, tired springs, dry
> > rotting strut mounts, and worn bushings.
>
> > I have a set of springs from an '88 that had Eibachs installed at 20,000
> > miles, so they should be good. They sure *look* new!
>
> > I got Energy Suspension bushings from AutoZone ( I was surprised to see
> > them because in the past two years, NO ONE had them!) They are black, I
> > believe they are polyurethane. I'll know tomorrow...
>
> > Now, shocks. I believe Toyotas come with Tokico shocks OEM.
>
> > I can get Koni adjustables from Tire Rack for ~$100 each. A lot of Supra
> > owners say these are the BEST for all around driving. I find the price a
> > bit much...
>
> > KYBs, which I used to think were a good strut are ~$50, but I don't think
> > they're as good as they used to be. They do come with a Lifetime warranty.
>
> > Tokicos run ~$58-100, with "Performance"~$78
>
> > Bilsteins for this car are ~$110
>
> > Gabriels ~$50
>
> > So, I want a good strut, moderate performance, and won't break down after
> > a couple years. ANy techs/performance guys have an idea which would be a
> > good all-around strut (Other than the Koni yellows, of course!
>
> I had the delimna of what shocks to get for my miata and was able to
> drive many other owner's cars before I settled on what to get. I was
> looking into the Konis, Tokicos, and Bilstein HDs. I had had Konis on
> my MR2 and liked the adjustability of them even though it took a whil
> to figure it out since it isn't really linear. The Tokicos were
> cheaper, so they made the list. The Bilsteins were not adjustable, and
> people said they were too stiff in stock form. I called up a friend
> who knows more abotu spring damper systems than I woudl ever care to
> know. He worked as an engineer on Sarah Fisher's team(IRL).
>
> He pointed out that Konis only adjust the rebound, so they give good
> performance in some band-aid sort of ways. For instance if you crank
> the rebound damping way up it will effectively cause the car to get
> sucked down as you go through a slalom since the side that is
> unloading doesn't have time to fully unload. This helps in some cars
> and not in others depending on where your roll centers are and how you
> are aligned. They are not adjustable in bump though. He pointed out
> that a good non-adjustable shock optimized to the spring rates will
> usually outperform an adjustable shock unless you have a support team
> of engineers, and sometimes that won't even help you. He suggested
> going with a custom valved Bilstein HD. It uses a different type of
> valve that is apparently far superior to the Koni valves. I contacted
> a guy named John Stimola in NY and got a quiote for four shocks at
> nearly 200 a pop, but they were cusomized to the springs.
>
> I hesitated on ordering them since that was a lot of money. I then got
> to drive a car with custom valved HDs, although valved by someone
> other that Stimola, and I was sold. The car was a dream. It handled
> beautifully, but soaked up bumps as well as a stock miata. I was ready
> to pull the trigger on the order when some idiot aggressive driver in
> a 300zx crashed into my miata. Once the judge granted me the money for
> that I realized that since my car was now considered a crashed car its
> value wouldn't be more than 1500 bucks, and it didn't really make
> sense to put 1500 bucks worth of springs, coilover perches, bump stops
> and shocks on it. But I am still convinced that custom valved Bilstein
> HDs are the way to go.
>
> I don't have John's info any more, but if you search around I'm sure
> you can find him. His name comes up on SCCA forums. He's pretty well
> known on the east coast and goes ot most of the big SCCA autocrossing
> events.

awesome post, I learned stuff today!
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