TPMS Warning Light and Cold Weather in Camry
in [Toyota]
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From: JoeSpareBedroom on 10 Dec 2009 00:01 "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message news:pan.2009.12.10.04.48.37.620955(a)e86.GTS... > On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:27:21 -0500, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: > >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >> news:pan.2009.12.10.02.11.38.656015(a)e86.GTS... >>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 00:01:03 -0600, Ray O wrote: >>> >>>>> How do you eliminate this silly thing entirely? Just replace valve >>>>> stems with normal ones? >>>>> >>>> I usually recommend inflating the tires to 5 or 6 PSI above the values >>>> indicated on the door frame to improve tread life. >>> >>> I usually recommend running them up to the rating on the sidewall! >>> >>> I did this with my '80 Corolla SR5's Bridgestones and got 125,000 miles >>> on them! >>> >>> I always go to the sidewall rating, and typically get 70,000 miles or >>> more out of my tires. >>> >>> I didn't replaced the Dunlops on the '85 GTS until 1991! >> >> >> I get the best snow performance with my tires at around 34 psi. If I >> recall, the sidewall max rating is close to 50 psi. You think I should >> pump them to the higher number? > > Not in snow. For a reason unkonwn to me, all season radials seem to work > better at lower tire pressures than higher. I had read this somewhere (Car > and Driver, perhaps?) a long time ago and always let a little air out in > the wintertime. > > Maybe it has to do with more tread digging in to the snow? Maybe someone > here knows why that is. > > I would pump them up in the summer, if they are all season tires. Some > people don't like the ride at higher pressures. In the Scion I feel every > pebble. It's about how much tread ends up sitting flat on the road. Too much air and you have a hump in the middle of the tread. Not enough and you have a hollow groove in the center of the tread. There is no air pressure recommendation which can be generally recommended. It has to be determined by inspection of tread wear as it relates to the weight of the vehicle. This is why the numbers on the door sticker are almost irrelevant, as are comments from other owners of tires, unless they involve the exact same tire model on the exact same vehicle.
From: C. E. White on 10 Dec 2009 08:11 "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:xg%Tm.44351$Sw5.37623(a)newsfe16.iad... > "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message > news:pan.2009.12.10.04.48.37.620955(a)e86.GTS... >> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:27:21 -0500, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: >> >>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >>> news:pan.2009.12.10.02.11.38.656015(a)e86.GTS... >>>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 00:01:03 -0600, Ray O wrote: >>>> >>>>>> How do you eliminate this silly thing entirely? Just replace >>>>>> valve >>>>>> stems with normal ones? >>>>>> >>>>> I usually recommend inflating the tires to 5 or 6 PSI above the >>>>> values >>>>> indicated on the door frame to improve tread life. >>>> >>>> I usually recommend running them up to the rating on the >>>> sidewall! >>>> >>>> I did this with my '80 Corolla SR5's Bridgestones and got 125,000 >>>> miles >>>> on them! >>>> >>>> I always go to the sidewall rating, and typically get 70,000 >>>> miles or >>>> more out of my tires. >>>> >>>> I didn't replaced the Dunlops on the '85 GTS until 1991! >>> >>> >>> I get the best snow performance with my tires at around 34 psi. If >>> I >>> recall, the sidewall max rating is close to 50 psi. You think I >>> should >>> pump them to the higher number? >> >> Not in snow. For a reason unkonwn to me, all season radials seem to >> work >> better at lower tire pressures than higher. I had read this >> somewhere (Car >> and Driver, perhaps?) a long time ago and always let a little air >> out in >> the wintertime. >> >> Maybe it has to do with more tread digging in to the snow? Maybe >> someone >> here knows why that is. >> >> I would pump them up in the summer, if they are all season tires. >> Some >> people don't like the ride at higher pressures. In the Scion I feel >> every >> pebble. > > > It's about how much tread ends up sitting flat on the road. Too much > air and you have a hump in the middle of the tread. Not enough and > you have a hollow groove in the center of the tread. There is no air > pressure recommendation which can be generally recommended. It has > to be determined by inspection of tread wear as it relates to the > weight of the vehicle. This is why the numbers on the door sticker > are almost irrelevant, as are comments from other owners of tires, > unless they involve the exact same tire model on the exact same > vehicle. If you check it out, you'll find there are industry standard load/inflation pressure tables based on tire size and type, but not manufacturer. Every manufacturer's P235R15 will have the same load/inflation table. Therefore, as long as you stick with the same size and type of tires, the information on the vechiles label will be valid. I don't agree with the idea that you should inflate the tires to the maximum pressure listed on the tires sidewall, unless of course this is the pressure recommended on the vehciles tire pressure label. No tire manufacturer recommends blindly inflating the tires to the maximum pressure listed on the tires sidewall. No vehicle manfacturer recommends this. They all pretty much say the same thing, inflate the tires to the pressure listed on the vehicles tire pressure label (this assumes you are using the same size and type of tires as originally provided). I don't see a problem with going up a couple of PSI, but I think it is a very bad idea to increase the pressure greatly. I've had some vehicles that came with extra load p series tires that had a maximum sidewall pressure of around 50 psi. This was 14 psi over the vehicles recommended pressure. This can be bad for handling, safety and make the tire more vulnerable to bruising. Ed
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 10 Dec 2009 08:19 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:hfqscc$1m3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message > news:xg%Tm.44351$Sw5.37623(a)newsfe16.iad... >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >> news:pan.2009.12.10.04.48.37.620955(a)e86.GTS... >>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:27:21 -0500, JoeSpareBedroom wrote: >>> >>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >>>> news:pan.2009.12.10.02.11.38.656015(a)e86.GTS... >>>>> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 00:01:03 -0600, Ray O wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> How do you eliminate this silly thing entirely? Just replace valve >>>>>>> stems with normal ones? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I usually recommend inflating the tires to 5 or 6 PSI above the >>>>>> values >>>>>> indicated on the door frame to improve tread life. >>>>> >>>>> I usually recommend running them up to the rating on the sidewall! >>>>> >>>>> I did this with my '80 Corolla SR5's Bridgestones and got 125,000 >>>>> miles >>>>> on them! >>>>> >>>>> I always go to the sidewall rating, and typically get 70,000 miles or >>>>> more out of my tires. >>>>> >>>>> I didn't replaced the Dunlops on the '85 GTS until 1991! >>>> >>>> >>>> I get the best snow performance with my tires at around 34 psi. If I >>>> recall, the sidewall max rating is close to 50 psi. You think I should >>>> pump them to the higher number? >>> >>> Not in snow. For a reason unkonwn to me, all season radials seem to work >>> better at lower tire pressures than higher. I had read this somewhere >>> (Car >>> and Driver, perhaps?) a long time ago and always let a little air out in >>> the wintertime. >>> >>> Maybe it has to do with more tread digging in to the snow? Maybe someone >>> here knows why that is. >>> >>> I would pump them up in the summer, if they are all season tires. Some >>> people don't like the ride at higher pressures. In the Scion I feel >>> every >>> pebble. >> >> >> It's about how much tread ends up sitting flat on the road. Too much air >> and you have a hump in the middle of the tread. Not enough and you have a >> hollow groove in the center of the tread. There is no air pressure >> recommendation which can be generally recommended. It has to be >> determined by inspection of tread wear as it relates to the weight of the >> vehicle. This is why the numbers on the door sticker are almost >> irrelevant, as are comments from other owners of tires, unless they >> involve the exact same tire model on the exact same vehicle. > > If you check it out, you'll find there are industry standard > load/inflation pressure tables based on tire size and type, but not > manufacturer. Every manufacturer's P235R15 will have the same > load/inflation table. Therefore, as long as you stick with the same size > and type of tires, the information on the vechiles label will be valid. > > I don't agree with the idea that you should inflate the tires to the > maximum pressure listed on the tires sidewall, unless of course this is > the pressure recommended on the vehciles tire pressure label. No tire > manufacturer recommends blindly inflating the tires to the maximum > pressure listed on the tires sidewall. No vehicle manfacturer recommends > this. They all pretty much say the same thing, inflate the tires to the > pressure listed on the vehicles tire pressure label (this assumes you are > using the same size and type of tires as originally provided). I don't see > a problem with going up a couple of PSI, but I think it is a very bad idea > to increase the pressure greatly. I've had some vehicles that came with > extra load p series tires that had a maximum sidewall pressure of around > 50 psi. This was 14 psi over the vehicles recommended pressure. This can > be bad for handling, safety and make the tire more vulnerable to bruising. > > Ed > I agree about the max pressure, but the hack seems to have other ideas.
From: C. E. White on 10 Dec 2009 08:37 "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message news:pan.2009.12.09.01.08.10.548519(a)e86.GTS... > On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:57:16 -0800, SMS wrote: > >> Ray O wrote: >> >>> I would check all of the tires, including the spare, with a tire >>> pressure gauge and inflate to at least the pressures indicated in >>> the >>> owner's manual and on the driver's door or glove box door. >> >> All the tires were fine. The light went out by itself. They were >> all 29.5 >> to 30 psi, taken with a high quality dial type pressure gauge. It >> says >> that they should be 32 psi, and I have no idea what the range is >> before >> the light comes on. Maybe it's 10% and one of the tires was at 28 >> psi >> early this morning. >> >> I recall renting a Chrysler minivan last year in Utah and when we >> were up >> near Yellowstone in high elevation the TPMS light came on when >> there was >> nothing wrong. I mentioned it when I returned the vehicle and they >> said >> that it was a common occurrence in higher elevations (and they gave >> me one >> day of the rental free just for telling them about the problem!). >> >> It appears as if the TPMS systems don't correct for altitude or >> temperature. > > Most likely, not. Remember, at higher altitudes, air pressure is > lower. > Same for a cold day. > > Funny thing is, here in the great Northeast, even on sub-zero days, > my > TPMS never goes off. Perhaps it is programmed different for cold > days. If you have the indirect type of system (based on the ABS sensors), they are less likely to go off due to a change in the outside temperature. They determine that a tire is underinflated by comparing the rolling diamters of the four tires to each other over time. The system establishes a basline comparison and then looks for deviations. If one tires looses pressure, it will slightly alter the rolling radius of that tire and over a number of miles the logic in the computer will determine that one tire is underinflated compared to the baseline previously established. If they all lose pressure by the same amount (becasue of a temperature change) then there is no significant difference to detect and no light. Direct reading systems (the ones with the pressure sensors in the tires) read the actual pressure in the tires and comapre it to some predetermined value. If the tire preessure decreases due to a temperature change, and you are already close to the lower limit, the light will be triggered. All the systems I know will not turn the light off untill you go through a start cycle and a few miles of driving. The direct reading systems have a pretty big tolerance (10% to 25% depending on application). For a car with a recommended pressure of 35 psi, I imagine you need to have the pressure drop to 30 or less to trigger the light. Here is a Toyota TSB describing the direct reading type of system - http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/NWwrench/2009-05-23_035555_PG004-06.pdf There is an interesting Lexus bulletin at http://www.lexustsb.com/getattachment.php?data=MjMzfFBHMDA4LTAzLnBkZg%3D%3D that describes how dealers should inflate tires to compensate for temperature differences between the shop and the real world.... Ed
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