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From: hls on 29 Jan 2010 09:36

"john" <johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d484ef86-9c21-4f68-8bfe-5f645cfe87f3(a)m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> So is this a case of Toyota design defect?

Probably not. There have been relatively few cases of this uncontrollable
acceleration demon.

Had it been a design defect, one would expect the problem to be
widespread. It isnt.

From: ACAR on 29 Jan 2010 10:46
On Jan 29, 9:36 am, "hls" <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote:
> "john" <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d484ef86-9c21-4f68-8bfe-5f645cfe87f3(a)m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > So is this a case of Toyota design defect?
>
> Probably not.   There have been relatively few cases of this uncontrollable
> acceleration demon.
>
> Had it been a design defect, one would expect the problem to be
> widespread.  It isnt.

I found the following at Automotive News: the pedal issue kinda sounds
like a very infrequent corrosion or wear-related mechanical condition.
The 2009 ES350 crash has been attributed to floor mats. Both these
causes seem pretty easy to detect.

AFAIK, a purely electronic demon, causing loss of throttle control,
has been reported by a very small number of Prius owners. Any other
cars?


"...Mitchell Walorski, head of CTS Corp. investor relations, said the
Elkhart, Ind., supplier is not part of the problem. CTS has “no
knowledge of any accident or injury” stemming from the accelerator
assemblies it supplies Toyota, he said.

Walorski told Automotive News today that CTS engineers are assisting
Toyota, “but this is their recall.” CTS was not consulted about
Toyota's decision to issue the recall or to halt certain vehicles'
sales, he said.

In a separate statement, CTS said the company has been working with
Toyota to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from
Toyota.

“The newly designed pedal is now tested, and parts are beginning to
ship to some Toyota factories,” CTS said.

Toyota described the cause of the recall as “a rare set of conditions
which may cause the accelerator pedal to become harder to depress,
slower to return or, in the worst case, stuck in a partially depressed
position.” Toyota said this condition “is rare and occurs gradually
over a period of time.”

Based on information from Toyota, CTS said, “We are aware of fewer
than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no
instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially
depressed condition....”

From: Mike Hunter on 29 Jan 2010 11:11
In any event that does not explain why Toyotas with the fly by wire systems
are being recalled as well.


"john" <johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c581e0b-de16-4265-950e-4c3235871e23(a)k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Some kind of specification that is. Let's see if they'll try to blame
it on CTS.

"CTS made the pedals at issue. But Khilnani stressed several times to
Wall Street analysts that the pedals CTS made for Toyota were �to
their specifications.� Pedals that CTS makes for other automakers,
including Honda, Nissan, Chrysler and Mitsubishi, he said, are based
on different designs for each automaker. "

http://www.freep.com/article/20100128/BUSINESS01/100128033/1331/


From: Mike Hunter on 29 Jan 2010 11:16
In my opinion you are on to something. I believe the answer to Toyotas
problem will be found in the logarithms of the process controller, rather
than a mechanical problem, since it is found on such a diverse number of
dissimilar models built all around the world.

"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:s-adnUAAJILioP_WnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "john" <johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5c581e0b-de16-4265-950e-4c3235871e23(a)k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Some kind of specification that is. Let's see if they'll try to blame
> it on CTS.
> *********
> It will be interesting to see. We have had people post here that the
> pedals
> did not actually stick...if this is the case, the problem (if there really
> is one)
> has to be the interface or electronic control unit, not any mechanical
> device.
>
> Time will tell


From: ACAR on 29 Jan 2010 16:44
On Jan 29, 11:16 am, "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote:
> In my opinion you are on to something.   I believe the answer to Toyotas
> problem will be found in the logarithms of the process controller, rather
> than a mechanical problem, since it is found on such a diverse number of
> dissimilar models built all around the world.
>

It could be that mechanical issues are masking an underlying process
controller problem. I suspect the algorithm is OK as written but
something in the assembly process is putting a very small number of
these controllers off. Could be something as simple as a bent
connector pin.
We'll see what they come up with. Then what they'll do to improve
their QC process.
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