O2 Sensor?
in [Toyota]
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From: Ray O on 14 Dec 2008 02:03 "Sarah Houston" <SHoust(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote in message news:Xns9B73F1C9C81F5SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco(a)216.196.97.142... > "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote : > >> >> "Sarah Houston" <SHoust(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote in message >> news:Xns9B73E46F3CB8ASntzldfrdSntzldfrdco(a)216.196.97.142... >>> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote : >>> >>>> >>>> "Sarah Houston" <SHoust(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote in message >>>> news:Xns9B73C8AABB540SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco(a)216.196.97.142... >>>>>( 93 Corolla 1.8L 7AFE ) >>>>> >>>>> I had no idea about this but Bosch suggests replacing the oxygen >>>>> sensor with every tuneup? Huh? Mine has never been replaced as far >>>>> as I know. ( we got the car at 45k miles, it now has 172k ) >>>>> >>>>> http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/OxygenSensors/ >>>>> >>>>> Seriously? >>>>> >>>>> I priced a Bosch one at about $60 with tax. >>>>> >>>>> Is there any real advantage to using a Toyota part on this? >>>>> ( outside of to Toyota, because it costs more? ) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Toyota does not recommend replacing O2 sensors as part of routine >>>> maintenance. Perhaps Bosch does not have confidence in the >>>> longevity of their sensors, which might be a good reason to stick >>>> to OEM, or maybe Bosch is just trying to sell more parts. >>>> >>>> I have heard of problems when people use non-OEM sensors on >>>> Toyotas, but Bosch should be OK to use if you use the one with the >>>> correct factory connector. Some of the cheaper O2 sensors do not >>>> have the correct factory connector and you have to splice wires. >>>> The splices often end up being short-lived and you end up with >>>> problems within a year or so. >>>> >>>> In any event, if you do not have a check engine light illuminated, >>>> I wouldn't worry about your O2 sensors. >>> >>> Don't they get clogged after awhile? >>> >> "Contaminated" is probably a more accurate description than >> "clogged." Like I said, a malfunctioning O2 sensor usually will be >> indicated by a check engine light but if you are worried, it is >> pretty easy to check your O2 sensor's function with a volt meter. I >> always recommend checking something before blindly replacing it. > > Malfunctioning yes, I understand that, but: > > http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/O2_Sensor/ > > After doing some extensive reading, it began to come clear how the O2 > Sensor performance could be off, yet not be able to see any symptoms > (other than lower gas mileage) with the tools I was using. It turns out > that the O2 swing cycle shown in the photographs is the swing time of > the overall system and not just the O2 sensor itself. To really examine > the performance the O2 sensor, for example to determine if it was > developing a lean or rich offset, one would have to use a digital volt > meter with an averaging feature connected directly to the sensor and > look for the 450mV centerline signal in a known, properly performing > system centered at the 50% duty cycle. To measure responsiveness, one > would have to use a laboratory scope and setup specifically for this > measurement as a properly performing O2 sensor has response times in the > neighborhood of a few hundreds of a second, not the average 1.8 seconds > seen as the overall system response time by an OBDII scanner. > > So when do you replace the O2 sensor? The answer turns out to be simple. > Per a trusted Toyota service manager's experience and, experiences > posted in the Toyota 4x4wire Forum, the O2 sensor needs to be replaced > on average every 75,000 miles to maintain optimum gas mileage > performance. > > If your objective is to maintain optimum fuel mileage regardless of the cost, then replace the O2 sensor often. If your objective is to balance the money saved from maintaining good fuel efficiency with the cost of replacing an O2 sensor, you can use the method developed by the folks who designed your car, which I explained, and which I use on my personal vehicles. -- Ray O (former trusted? Toyota district service manager, called on 50+ Toyota dealer service departments)
From: Sarah Houston on 14 Dec 2008 03:36 "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote : > > "Sarah Houston" <SHoust(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote in message > news:Xns9B73F1C9C81F5SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco(a)216.196.97.142... >> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote : >> >>> >>> "Sarah Houston" <SHoust(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote in message >>> news:Xns9B73E46F3CB8ASntzldfrdSntzldfrdco(a)216.196.97.142... >>>> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote : >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sarah Houston" <SHoust(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:Xns9B73C8AABB540SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco(a)216.196.97.142... >>>>>>( 93 Corolla 1.8L 7AFE ) >>>>>> >>>>>> I had no idea about this but Bosch suggests replacing the oxygen >>>>>> sensor with every tuneup? Huh? Mine has never been replaced as >>>>>> far as I know. ( we got the car at 45k miles, it now has 172k ) >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/OxygenSensors/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Seriously? >>>>>> >>>>>> I priced a Bosch one at about $60 with tax. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there any real advantage to using a Toyota part on this? >>>>>> ( outside of to Toyota, because it costs more? ) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Toyota does not recommend replacing O2 sensors as part of routine >>>>> maintenance. Perhaps Bosch does not have confidence in the >>>>> longevity of their sensors, which might be a good reason to stick >>>>> to OEM, or maybe Bosch is just trying to sell more parts. >>>>> >>>>> I have heard of problems when people use non-OEM sensors on >>>>> Toyotas, but Bosch should be OK to use if you use the one with >>>>> the correct factory connector. Some of the cheaper O2 sensors do >>>>> not have the correct factory connector and you have to splice >>>>> wires. The splices often end up being short-lived and you end up >>>>> with problems within a year or so. >>>>> >>>>> In any event, if you do not have a check engine light >>>>> illuminated, I wouldn't worry about your O2 sensors. >>>> >>>> Don't they get clogged after awhile? >>>> >>> "Contaminated" is probably a more accurate description than >>> "clogged." Like I said, a malfunctioning O2 sensor usually will be >>> indicated by a check engine light but if you are worried, it is >>> pretty easy to check your O2 sensor's function with a volt meter. >>> I always recommend checking something before blindly replacing it. >> >> Malfunctioning yes, I understand that, but: >> >> http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/O2_Sensor/ >> >> After doing some extensive reading, it began to come clear how the >> O2 Sensor performance could be off, yet not be able to see any >> symptoms (other than lower gas mileage) with the tools I was using. >> It turns out that the O2 swing cycle shown in the photographs is the >> swing time of the overall system and not just the O2 sensor itself. >> To really examine the performance the O2 sensor, for example to >> determine if it was developing a lean or rich offset, one would have >> to use a digital volt meter with an averaging feature connected >> directly to the sensor and look for the 450mV centerline signal in a >> known, properly performing system centered at the 50% duty cycle. To >> measure responsiveness, one would have to use a laboratory scope and >> setup specifically for this measurement as a properly performing O2 >> sensor has response times in the neighborhood of a few hundreds of a >> second, not the average 1.8 seconds seen as the overall system >> response time by an OBDII scanner. >> >> So when do you replace the O2 sensor? The answer turns out to be >> simple. Per a trusted Toyota service manager's experience and, >> experiences posted in the Toyota 4x4wire Forum, the O2 sensor needs >> to be replaced on average every 75,000 miles to maintain optimum gas >> mileage performance. >> >> > If your objective is to maintain optimum fuel mileage regardless of > the cost, then replace the O2 sensor often. > > If your objective is to balance the money saved from maintaining good > fuel efficiency with the cost of replacing an O2 sensor, you can use > the method developed by the folks who designed your car, which I > explained, and which I use on my personal vehicles. > Well the MPG hasn't been so great this past year or so.
From: ransley on 14 Dec 2008 04:48 On Dec 13, 8:43 pm, Sarah Houston <SHo...(a)pndfnospam.com> wrote: > ( 93 Corolla 1.8L 7AFE ) > > I had no idea about this but Bosch suggests replacing the oxygen sensor > with every tuneup? Huh? Mine has never been replaced as far as I know. ( > we got the car at 45k miles, it now has 172k ) > > http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/OxygenSensors/ > > Seriously? > > I priced a Bosch one at about $60 with tax. > > Is there any real advantage to using a Toyota part on this? > ( outside of to Toyota, because it costs more? ) Have a mechanic put it on a scope it will tell you what needs replacing, if milage is bad and a tunup is due , do one completely.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 14 Dec 2008 09:35 On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:43:26 -0600, Ray O wrote: > I have heard of problems when people use non-OEM sensors on Toyotas, but > Bosch should be OK to use if you use the one with the correct factory > connector. Some of the cheaper O2 sensors do not have the correct factory > connector and you have to splice wires. The splices often end up being > short-lived and you end up with problems within a year or so. I replaced the O2 sensors in my Tercel with Bosch sensors. They are probably the best AM sensors you can get, if you can't get Denso. Also, I was working at a CarQuest when I did it, so I paid about $35 each for them. And, when *I* do splices, they *STAY* spliced! ;) I had no problems with them. Fuel economy and performance actually increased, probably mainly for the reason they were new.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 14 Dec 2008 09:37
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:46:06 -0600, Sarah Houston wrote: > > After doing some extensive reading, it began to come clear how the O2 > Sensor performance could be off, yet not be able to see any symptoms > (other than lower gas mileage) with the tools I was using. Hmmm...are you really a girl? Where are you? Can you replace transmissions and U-joints? ;) |