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From: Ray O on 23 Feb 2010 02:16

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hlv8bm$576$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
> news:hlv2ib$gf2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]" <.@.> wrote in message
>> news:h345o5lmfib8vvj5esld4bvohh60rmmuig(a)4ax.com...
>>> >"Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]" <.@.> wrote in message
>>>>news:7hvqn5hn5mch7kgdoor45p766gre0f91t2(a)4ax.com...
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any sensors in the area of the throttle body? If so, are
>>>>> they easy to change?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks much for any replies.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]
>>>>
>>>>Off the top of my head, the only sensor I can think of in the throttle
>>>>body
>>>>is the throttle position sensor. It is easy to change but not so easy
>>>>to
>>>>adjust correctly after installing it but that shouldn't really be a
>>>>problem
>>>>because throttle position sensors do not fail often.
>>>>
>>>>Why do you ask?
>>>
>>> It's on my wife's car and I thought it had something to do with her
>>> check engine light. I say it because passing emissions I use the
>>> time-tested unplug the battery trick and am usually able to go 35-40
>>> miles before the light comes back on. I'd recently had some work done
>>> on her car and the mechanic said that the throttle body looked like it
>>> had never been serviced/cleaned and he used practically a whole can of
>>> cleaner degunking it. After this, I'd reset the check engine light and
>>> it didn't come back on for nearly 140 miles so I thought there might
>>> be something to it. HOWEVER, it recently came to my attention that
>>> there was a Federal lawsuit on 96-2002 Toyota's for EVAP related
>>> issues and to my knowledge my wife never got any recall noticed or
>>> ever had it serviced so I think that's all it is. I'd once replaced
>>> the gas cap with a new one thinking that might have been it but
>>> apparently it wasn't it either. Autozone scanned it once and they said
>>> it was the Coolant Temp Sensor but I replaced that and it didn't fix
>>> it either. I'm pretty sure it's the EVAP related thing.
>>>
>>> The recall I am referring to is this one:
>>> http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/cases/civil/caa/toyota.html
>>>
>>> - Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]
>>
>> There are basically 3 types of faults that will illuminate the check
>> engine light (technically known as a Malfunction Indicator Light, or
>> "MIL"). On the first type of fault, the computer has to see the same
>> problem on 2 consecutive trips to avoid turning on the MIL for a random
>> problem. Most evap system faults have 2 trip detection logic.
>>
>> The next type of fault has 1 trip detection logic, and as the name
>> implies, the computer only has to see the problem once to illuminate the
>> MIL. An example of this might be no signal from the vehicle's speed
>> sensor.
>>
>> The third type of fault is one that will damage the engine or
>> transmission, and the MIL will flash instead of just being steadily
>> illuminated. The computer will go into a failsafe mode and the vehicle
>> should not be driven.
>>
>> Back to MIL diagnosis... When you pull the main EFI fuse or clear the MIL
>> with a code scanner, the computer has to go through a system readiness
>> check, where basically, it wants to see a signal from every sensor, and
>> in the case of systems with 2 trip detection logic, see signals from
>> those sensors on 2 consecutive trips. There is a specific definition of
>> "trip," where every sensor in the vehicle has a chance to warm up and do
>> its magic.
>>
>> The EVAP or evaporative emissions control system is designed to trap
>> fumes that would escape from the vehicle even while it is parked, mainly
>> fumes from the gas tank. The system checks to make sure that the gas
>> tank is sealed, and then a charcoal canister absorbs and stores fuel
>> vapors. When the engine is cold and started, the fumes are purged from
>> the charcoal canister and burned in the engine. Depending on the
>> specific trouble code, the problem could be that purge function is not
>> operating correctly.
>>
>> Rather than guess at what the specific problem on your wife's car is, the
>> smart thing to do is to have the codes scanned for free at someplace like
>> Autozone, write down the specific numerical codes, and post them here.
>> Although the codes point to systems like EVAP, there is a way to test
>> just about every sensor and actuator to see what actually needs
>> replacing. If you have the specific codes, I can try to explain how to
>> check the related parts.
>>
>> Are you a hockey player for the team that your signature suggests? I
>> happen to work fairly close to where that team plays and live close to
>> where the team practices. I have a code scanner and can pull the codes
>> for you as it only takes about 30 seconds. (no charge).
>> --
>>
>
>
> TAKE RAY UP ON THE OFFER! Run, do not walk, to Ray's house -- okay, drive
> over -- and let him give you his two cents worth.
>
> I gave you some pretty good tips, but they really only amount to about two
> cents. Ray's got at least a dime's worth of tips that he just offered.
>

But first, I gotta get rid of my daughter's friend's Chrysler Concorde,
which died in our driveway. Yesterday, she called to say that her friend's
charge warning light was on and that the power steering was gone and she was
a block from our house so I told her to bring it over. I figured I'd slap a
new accessory drive belt on and she would be on her merry way except that
the bracket that holds the belt tensioner broke off, which is why the belt
disappeared, so there was no way to tension the belt. The friend's
boyfriend was there and he said that he had replaced 3 of those brackets on
his car so it would be an easy job.

They got the part at the dealership today (when the dealer stocks an oddball
part like that, you know it fails often) and gave up after 6 hours of
messing with it, even with the use of my air tools.

I haven't looked at what they did yet, but if it is not out of the way
tomorrow, I'll take a stab at it.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: Ray O on 24 Feb 2010 16:23

"Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]" <.@.> wrote in message
news:g81bo5p7oaq0kcg52ag2leacvg3kuckmcd(a)4ax.com...
> >"Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]" <.@.> wrote in message
>>news:h345o5lmfib8vvj5esld4bvohh60rmmuig(a)4ax.com...
>>> >"Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]" <.@.> wrote in message
>>>>news:7hvqn5hn5mch7kgdoor45p766gre0f91t2(a)4ax.com...
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any sensors in the area of the throttle body? If so, are
>>>>> they easy to change?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks much for any replies.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]
>>>>
>>>>Off the top of my head, the only sensor I can think of in the throttle
>>>>body
>>>>is the throttle position sensor. It is easy to change but not so easy
>>>>to
>>>>adjust correctly after installing it but that shouldn't really be a
>>>>problem
>>>>because throttle position sensors do not fail often.
>>>>
>>>>Why do you ask?
>>>
>>> It's on my wife's car and I thought it had something to do with her
>>> check engine light. I say it because passing emissions I use the
>>> time-tested unplug the battery trick and am usually able to go 35-40
>>> miles before the light comes back on. I'd recently had some work done
>>> on her car and the mechanic said that the throttle body looked like it
>>> had never been serviced/cleaned and he used practically a whole can of
>>> cleaner degunking it. After this, I'd reset the check engine light and
>>> it didn't come back on for nearly 140 miles so I thought there might
>>> be something to it. HOWEVER, it recently came to my attention that
>>> there was a Federal lawsuit on 96-2002 Toyota's for EVAP related
>>> issues and to my knowledge my wife never got any recall noticed or
>>> ever had it serviced so I think that's all it is. I'd once replaced
>>> the gas cap with a new one thinking that might have been it but
>>> apparently it wasn't it either. Autozone scanned it once and they said
>>> it was the Coolant Temp Sensor but I replaced that and it didn't fix
>>> it either. I'm pretty sure it's the EVAP related thing.
>>>
>>> The recall I am referring to is this one:
>>> http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/cases/civil/caa/toyota.html
>>>
>>> - Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]
>>
>>There are basically 3 types of faults that will illuminate the check
>>engine
>>light (technically known as a Malfunction Indicator Light, or "MIL"). On
>>the first type of fault, the computer has to see the same problem on 2
>>consecutive trips to avoid turning on the MIL for a random problem. Most
>>evap system faults have 2 trip detection logic.
>>
>>The next type of fault has 1 trip detection logic, and as the name
>>implies,
>>the computer only has to see the problem once to illuminate the MIL. An
>>example of this might be no signal from the vehicle's speed sensor.
>>
>>The third type of fault is one that will damage the engine or
>>transmission,
>>and the MIL will flash instead of just being steadily illuminated. The
>>computer will go into a failsafe mode and the vehicle should not be
>>driven.
>>
>>Back to MIL diagnosis... When you pull the main EFI fuse or clear the MIL
>>with a code scanner, the computer has to go through a system readiness
>>check, where basically, it wants to see a signal from every sensor, and in
>>the case of systems with 2 trip detection logic, see signals from those
>>sensors on 2 consecutive trips. There is a specific definition of "trip,"
>>where every sensor in the vehicle has a chance to warm up and do its
>>magic.
>>
>>The EVAP or evaporative emissions control system is designed to trap fumes
>>that would escape from the vehicle even while it is parked, mainly fumes
>>from the gas tank. The system checks to make sure that the gas tank is
>>sealed, and then a charcoal canister absorbs and stores fuel vapors. When
>>the engine is cold and started, the fumes are purged from the charcoal
>>canister and burned in the engine. Depending on the specific trouble
>>code,
>>the problem could be that purge function is not operating correctly.
>>
>>Rather than guess at what the specific problem on your wife's car is, the
>>smart thing to do is to have the codes scanned for free at someplace like
>>Autozone, write down the specific numerical codes, and post them here.
>>Although the codes point to systems like EVAP, there is a way to test just
>>about every sensor and actuator to see what actually needs replacing. If
>>you have the specific codes, I can try to explain how to check the related
>>parts.
>>
>>Are you a hockey player for the team that your signature suggests? I
>>happen
>>to work fairly close to where that team plays and live close to where the
>>team practices. I have a code scanner and can pull the codes for you as
>>it
>>only takes about 30 seconds. (no charge).
>
> Ray, I'll take you up on a scan if it really is not trouble for you. I
> don't play for the Wolves though. Are you from around Chicago? Any
> given Friday would be ok for me to meet if you aren't too far away.
>
> Well, originally I had autozone scan it and they said it was Coolant
> Temp Sensor. Replaced it with no difference. And when I mentioned that
> after I replaced the gas cap with a new one, the light stayed off for
> longer than it used to with the old gas cap. My mechanic who's been at
> it for 30 years says that with the many of the Corollas from the late
> 90s and early 2000s it is likely one of the EVAP related sensors. So
> while it is probably not EVAP itself, what I meant originally was that
> some research I did with Google points to something EVAP related. Have
> you seen this page that says it is a common problem with 1998-2002
> Corollas: http://www.corolland.com/repairs.html
> Look at the section titled "Engine light goes on"
>
> I also saw info on this site
> http://www.2carpros.com/forum/1998-toyota-corolla-vt190664.html
> which is how I was eventually led to the Fed suit against Toyota and
> the Emission Control issues. It seems that is still pending so if it
> is, I should be able to get Toyota to fix it gratis.
>
> - Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]

Corollas seem to be prone to EVAP trouble codes, and if I recall correctly,
the problem is with a purge valve on the charcoal canister. Unfortunately,
if that is the problem, I think you have to get a new canister.

I am in the northwest suburbs of Chicago and could meet up with you
somewhere, preferably someplace with free wi-fi so I can look up the
diagnosis while we're at it. I could probably take a look this Friday.

Send me an e-mail directly by Thursday night so I can put the scan tool and
a meter in my car and we can make arrangements to meet somewhere.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: aarcuda69062 on 25 Feb 2010 11:28
In article <hm45k1$n8o$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
"Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:


> Corollas seem to be prone to EVAP trouble codes, and if I recall correctly,
> the problem is with a purge valve on the charcoal canister. Unfortunately,
> if that is the problem, I think you have to get a new canister.

The purge vacuum switching valve is NOT located on the canister, it is
underhood. The canister is above the rear axle, the switching valve
mounted to it is the vapor pressure switching valve, it allows the PCM
to monitor pressure via the vapor pressure sensor in either; the
canister or the fuel tank.

Once understood, the system is not hard to diagnose but by just looking
at it, the way it works is not very intuitive.

Check back issues of Motor Magazine, january-July 2006 for Dan
Marinucci's series of articles on this EVAP system.
From: Ray O on 25 Feb 2010 13:45

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-785CAB.10284925022010(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <hm45k1$n8o$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Corollas seem to be prone to EVAP trouble codes, and if I recall
>> correctly,
>> the problem is with a purge valve on the charcoal canister.
>> Unfortunately,
>> if that is the problem, I think you have to get a new canister.
>
> The purge vacuum switching valve is NOT located on the canister, it is
> underhood. The canister is above the rear axle, the switching valve
> mounted to it is the vapor pressure switching valve, it allows the PCM
> to monitor pressure via the vapor pressure sensor in either; the
> canister or the fuel tank.
>
> Once understood, the system is not hard to diagnose but by just looking
> at it, the way it works is not very intuitive.
>
> Check back issues of Motor Magazine, january-July 2006 for Dan
> Marinucci's series of articles on this EVAP system.

My memory is getting bad, which is why I have to look stuff up more often.

Thanks for the clarification.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: Ray O on 28 Feb 2010 11:48

"Thee Chicago Wolf (MVP)" <.@.> wrote in message
news:rm6lo5t1m1r7kgcbrfnks3lel4s1mfrb7a(a)4ax.com...
> >"aarcuda69062" <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>news:nonelson-785CAB.10284925022010(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>> In article <hm45k1$n8o$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Corollas seem to be prone to EVAP trouble codes, and if I recall
>>>> correctly,
>>>> the problem is with a purge valve on the charcoal canister.
>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>> if that is the problem, I think you have to get a new canister.
>>>
>>> The purge vacuum switching valve is NOT located on the canister, it is
>>> underhood. The canister is above the rear axle, the switching valve
>>> mounted to it is the vapor pressure switching valve, it allows the PCM
>>> to monitor pressure via the vapor pressure sensor in either; the
>>> canister or the fuel tank.
>>>
>>> Once understood, the system is not hard to diagnose but by just looking
>>> at it, the way it works is not very intuitive.
>>>
>>> Check back issues of Motor Magazine, january-July 2006 for Dan
>>> Marinucci's series of articles on this EVAP system.
>>
>>My memory is getting bad, which is why I have to look stuff up more often.
>>
>>Thanks for the clarification.
>
> Just checking if you received my message and e-mail.

I did. I just re-sent my response in case you didn't get it.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



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