From: Mark A on 8 Oct 2007 15:56
"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> I'm not certain, but I believe a synthetic 10w-30 oil and a dino
> 10w-30 oil are based on oils of totally different weights.
> The dino 10w-30 is based on a 10-weight oil. It has VIIs (viscosity
> index improvers) added to it to increase
> But the synthetic 10w-30 oil (not conventional)
> is not based on a 10-weight oil like the dino, but instead based on
> 30-weight. And it has what are called
> "pour point depressants" so that the synthetic oil
> flows much better than the conventional at
> really cold temps.
> A problem with VIIs (viscosity index improvers)
> added to conventional oils is their degradation
> over time, especially in cold weather.
A full synthetic oil has "some" multi-viscosity properties even without any
additives, which is one reason it is far superior to conventional oil.
From: Built_Well on 8 Oct 2007 16:05
Mark A wrote:
> A full synthetic oil has "some" multi-viscosity properties even without any
> additives, which is one reason it is far superior to conventional oil._
Mark, you finally said something intelligent.
Good for you.
However, continue to avoid the 0w-30 oils lest they
bite you on the nose - LOL
From: Mark A on 8 Oct 2007 16:08
"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > Mark, you
finally said something intelligent.
> Good for you.
> However, continue to avoid the 0w-30 oils lest they
> bite you on the nose - LOL
I will continue to avoid 0W-30 unless an ice age returns, or I move to
From: Ray O on 9 Oct 2007 01:28
"Built_Well" <built_well_toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Ray O wrote:
>> Toyota would not object if you used WD-40 in the engine because they
> Well, Ray O, I thank you for the advice, but I think you're being
> a little too tough on the newer 0w-30 oils.
> It was funny, though, to read the WD-40 remark :-)
I have no problem with the newer 0W-30 oils, and there are automakers that
specify it (the Ford Focus comes to mind) because the engine design calls
for it. If the automaker specifies 0W-30, then that is the stuff to use.
The problem I have is that anyone who has not designed or extensively
studied the specific engine and emissions control system could think that
they know more about what is good for that engine than the people who
actually designed that engine. For example, does that person actually know
(as opposed to believe or assume) from long term tests and disassembly of
long-term test samples of the particular engine application that the oil
that they are recommending actually improves the life of the engine or
improves fuel economy WITHOUT a negative effect on MAF or MAP sensors,
catalytic converter, oil consumption, O2 and AF sensors, and throttle plate?
What is the effect on oil pressure and volume at startup low and high RPM
and at operating temperature low and high RPM? How will the oil control
rings, crankshaft bearings, connecting rod bearings, and wrist pins handle
the out-of-spec viscosity? What is the effect on the heat dissipation
characteristics of the oil on the engine? Is it possible for the 0 weight
oil to flow too quickly and not lubricate adequately?
0-W30 oil was already available on the market when your engine was designed,
yet the folks who engineered and designed your engine from the ground up and
who know what lubricants are available on the market chose to specify a
different oil. My guess is that they chose the specific viscosity range
that they did for a reason, even though 0W-30 was already on the market.
Even though I only have about 30 years experience working with Toyotas, I
learned that the folks who designed their powertrains have a pretty good
track record of coming up with products that last a long time. Rather than
gamble, guess, speculate, or believe someone who has never designed a Toyota
engine (or any engine for that matter) and hope that I will not have to
replace a very expensive engine, catalytic converter, or other part, I think
I'll just listen to what the folks who actually do know recommend.
(correct punctuation to reply)
From: Steve on 9 Oct 2007 11:17
Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> Don't these oils usually have some sort of additives (such as polymers) that
> cause it to thicken to the intended weight (e.g., 30 weight) at operating
You're probably referring to "viscosity modifiers," which do change
their characteristics to make the thickness of the oil stay more
constant over temperature. But over the last 20 years, more and more
oils are being made with no viscosity modifiers whatsoever. So no, they
don't always have polymer additives anymore. Synthetics, in particular,
can be made to have a wide mult-viscosity rating without resorting to