From: Moon Goddess on
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote :

> In article <xKmdndRcKdOSxzPbnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d(a)forethought.net>,
> Moon Goddess <MG(a)no-spam.www> wrote:
>
>> > What kind of driving do you expect to do that you need a 4WD?
>> > snow, mountain climbing, dirt roads, are you going to tow
>> > anything, do you need a small 4wd or large 4wd.
>> >
>>
>> Mostly city snow driving. I need something as fuel efficient as
>> possible, I do a lot of business driving.
>
> Then you do NOT want a vehicle that is able to drive all four wheels.
> Those mechanisms all weigh something, which costs gas to haul around
> all the time. It's like having another person in the car at all
> times. That extra gas costs $$$. It's a MPG penalty.
>
> Plus, all those systems require maintenance of their own, above and
> beyond what their 2wd brothers need. That also costs $$$.
>
> City driving? You'll be fine with front wheel drive and good tires.
> I heavily recommend Nokian WR. Absolute worst case, you buy snow
> tires with a more aggressive tread as well as a winter rating, and
> you run those during winter. But city driving? Paved roads that get
> plowed? You don't need 4wd or awd at all.
>
>

Only the main roads get plowed here and much of my work is driving into
the back neighborhoods, where I had a heck of a time last winter with
sometimes 6" of snow in the streets.

There's a hill along the street our driveway exits onto and even that
gets hard to get out of when it snows more than a few inches, and the
city cares not about it.

From: Jeff on
Moon Goddess wrote:
> Jeff <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote :
>
>> Moon Goddess wrote:
>>> If I wanted a reasonably priced 4WD, what's the most reliable one that
>>> gets the most MPG?
>>>
>>> Is it a Toyota or another brand?
>> Probably a Ford Escape Hybrid.
>>
>> jeff
>>
>
> Ford is reliable? :) I remember the old saying about them.

I have a '97 Ford Contour with 145k mi on it. I have had to do some
suspension work (rear struts), oil, two wheel bearings and one axle (one
side). Not great, but not bad for a car with 145k on it.

I haven't about the reliability of Escapes, but the Contour is a pretty
reliable car, with many going to 250 to 300k or more.

Escapes are now use as taxis in NYC.

Jeff

From: Jeff on
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <xKmdndRcKdOSxzPbnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d(a)forethought.net>,
> Moon Goddess <MG(a)no-spam.www> wrote:
>
>>> What kind of driving do you expect to do that you need a 4WD? snow,
>>> mountain climbing, dirt roads, are you going to tow anything, do you
>>> need a small 4wd or large 4wd.
>>>
>> Mostly city snow driving. I need something as fuel efficient as possible,
>> I do a lot of business driving.
>
> Then you do NOT want a vehicle that is able to drive all four wheels.
> Those mechanisms all weigh something, which costs gas to haul around all
> the time. It's like having another person in the car at all times.
> That extra gas costs $$$. It's a MPG penalty.

That's not quite true. It is worse than a person in the truck. There are
a whole bunch of extra gears and such that have to turn in the second
axle. So the penalty is more than just a big fatso next to you.

> Plus, all those systems require maintenance of their own, above and
> beyond what their 2wd brothers need. That also costs $$$.
>
> City driving? You'll be fine with front wheel drive and good tires. I
> heavily recommend Nokian WR. Absolute worst case, you buy snow tires
> with a more aggressive tread as well as a winter rating, and you run
> those during winter. But city driving? Paved roads that get plowed?
> You don't need 4wd or awd at all.

That's true. That's an arguement for a Prius or other hybrid.

Jeff
From: mrv on
On Jul 30, 4:06 pm, Moon Goddess <M...(a)no-spam.www> wrote:
> If I wanted a reasonably priced 4WD, what's the most reliable one that
> gets the most MPG?
>
> Is it a Toyota or another brand?

For US 2007 models, getting a combined EPA MPG of greater than 25 and
which are 4WD or AWD:

Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD version: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/22997.shtml
or the Mercury Mariner Hybrid: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23019.shtml
28MPG city/27MPG highway/27MPG combined (2008 estimated EPA MPG).

Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4WD version: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23835.shtml
or the Lexus RX400h 4WD version: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23820.shtml
27MPG city/25MPG highway/26MPG combined (2008 estimated EPA MPG).

for pricing, I'd probably stay with the Ford/Toyota rather than the
upscale Mercury/Lexus versions.

For the unplowed snow driving that you are asking about, you'd
probably do better with a high ground clearance vehicle with good snow
tires, than to just look for 4WD/AWD, though. (A FWD Prius with good
snow tires can get you most anywhere (without snow tires you can get
stuck) provided you have less than 4" or so of its ground clearance.)

From: Cathy F. on

"Moon Goddess" <MG(a)no-spam.www> wrote in message
news:xKmdndRcKdOSxzPbnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d(a)forethought.net...
> EdV <systmengr(a)hotmail.com> wrote :
>
>> What kind of driving do you expect to do that you need a 4WD? snow,
>> mountain climbing, dirt roads, are you going to tow anything, do you
>> need a small 4wd or large 4wd.
>>
>
> Mostly city snow driving. I need something as fuel efficient as possible,
> I do a lot of business driving.

Then I'd stick with front wheel drive, & give it tires which are rated as
very good/excellent in snow.

Cathy

>
> We were talking about the Prius but it's now 4WD.
>
> I was wondering what the most reliable 4WD was, that gets the most MPG, if
> it's a Toyota or some other make.
>