From: Peter Hill on 27 Oct 2009 19:49
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:04:36 -0400, "C. E. White"
>A Toyota commercial they are running in my area claims that 80% of all
>Toyota sold in the last 20 years are still on the road. This seemed to
>be a very low number to me. What do other think?
>I would have thought given Toyota's increase in sales over the last
>twenty years they would have had more like 90% of the cars sold in the
>last 20 years still on the road. Toyota sales have been increasing
>over the last twenty years, so a higher percentage of Toyotas will be
>newer models. Since a high percentage of Toyotas are newer vehicles
>that are more likely to still be on the road, the overall percentage
>of Toyotas sold in the last 20 years will be higher (becasue of the
>newer car bias). For GM, the math works the other way. GM sales have
>been stagnent or actually declining over the last 20 years, so a
>higher percentage of their cars will be older and therefore less
>likely to still be on the road. I am sure the 80% number is based on
>registrations, so it might be that it over estimates the number
>actually in daily use - or under estimates it in cases where cars are
>used off road (or illeagally) and not registered.
>Does anyone have any actual numbers? I am confident that 100% of the
>NEW vehicles I purchased in the last 20 years are still on the road,
>but maybe I am an exception.
>Here is sort of what I am thinking.....NOT REAL NUMBERS -
I have real prod figures and real numbers on UK DVLA registration /
Many cars don't get taken off the register. UK had a purge a few years
back by swapping to a new style log book. Anyone selling a car got a
new log book, then it was when they taxed the vehicle for the road and
they had a final mop up where people that had un-taxed vehicles off
the road could send in for new log book.
Taxation laws that require a vehicle to be declared as being off the
road annually have also meant people are less likely to hang on to a
project car or "doer up". As a declaration has been signed that the
vehicle is off the road and thus not liable for road tax being caught
with it on the road is tax evasion and not "oh sorry I must have
RHD European cars production numbers from NISSAN FAST database CD ER1,
so UK + Ireland and a few for Cyprus - maybe 6 or 7% not for UK. Only
the ones that came to UK will be on DVLA database. Bear in mind
there's at least 2 months between cars being made and first sales, the
boat trip takes 4-5 weeks. There was also overlap on RS13 and S14 as
old stock ran out slowly, the DVLA made no distinction between S13 and
S14 during the overlap. Limited number in first year will be pre-prod
bucks and test mules.
Silvia RS12U FJ20E & CA18ET
Year prod DVLA registered
1983 2 0
1984 3134 57
1985 2906 91
1086 2296 88
1987 690 119
1988 1009 100
1989 ---- 50
Looks like 505 out of 10037 = 5% over 20 years old.
200SX RS13U CA18DET
Year prod DVLA registered
1988 532 0
1989 2822 338
1990 2088 487
1991 2978 594
1992 1827 575
1993 1267 441
1994 ---- 456 (S14 went on sale Sept)
I've got a Dec '93 built RS13U that was registered new in UK Dec '94,
may even be some '95 reg. 11508 made, less than 2891 left, 25% of over
15 years and up to 20 year old cars.
200SX GBAS14U SR20DET
Year prod DVLA registered
1994 788 see RS13
1995 1298 508 (some could be old stock RS13U)
1996 425 552
1997 1178 569
1998 1143 605
1999 70 833
2000 ---- 508
2001 ---- 59
4848 made, of the last 455 made 26 went to Ireland and 5 to Cyprus.
3094 left so over 7 years old and up to 15 there's about 63% left.
The attrition rate is possibly higher than it would be for sad gray
porridge. A leading UK car guide says of the RS13 "Dangerous in the
wrong hands". Lots fall off roundabouts sideways, quite a few have
gone though hedges anyways round or up, up trees, been wrapped round
telegraph poles. At least one has knocked down and rail slid sideways
the full length of a lamp post, driver said hitting his head on the
roof rail above the door hurt a bit.
Don't ask about anything else, if it isn't an S platform I couldn't
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From: Scott Dorsey on 27 Oct 2009 21:30
Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
>My '91 Integra, still very much a daily driver (with 332,000 miles on it),
>is often the oldest car around, wherever I am.
This morning I parked my '74 next to a Desoto and a '54 MG at work. And
I work for an outfit that's supposed to be doing state of the art
The guy with the Model A wasn't there, though. He took the Maverick in.
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Tegger on 27 Oct 2009 21:36
kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
>>My '91 Integra, still very much a daily driver (with 332,000 miles on
>>it), is often the oldest car around, wherever I am.
> This morning I parked my '74 next to a Desoto and a '54 MG at work.
> And I work for an outfit that's supposed to be doing state of the art
> technology, too.
> The guy with the Model A wasn't there, though. He took the Maverick
You work in a very unusual place, I must say. Does your company hire only
From: clare on 27 Oct 2009 22:08
On 27 Oct 2009 21:30:10 -0400, kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
>>My '91 Integra, still very much a daily driver (with 332,000 miles on it),
>>is often the oldest car around, wherever I am.
>This morning I parked my '74 next to a Desoto and a '54 MG at work. And
>I work for an outfit that's supposed to be doing state of the art
>The guy with the Model A wasn't there, though. He took the Maverick in.
Where I work guys own a 66 stang, a 69 Chevelle (not malibu) post,and
a 61 vette, a '72 Challenger that I know of. On my street there is a
68? Firebird, a 57 BelAir, a 72 Duster, an early 80s Z28, and around
the corner a 69 Z28 and a 65 valiant that I know of. Then there's a
TVR arond the corner the other way, mid 70's.Several early 80s Supras
and Hondas in the neighbourhood too last I checked a couple blocks
over. Early Honda Accord across the street too that is very close to
20 years old.
At least half the rest of the cars on the street will be over 8 years
old - and it's NOT a depressed area.
From: nm5k on 27 Oct 2009 22:32
On Oct 27, 6:06 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> Maybe. But I'd listen to him if I were buying a work truck.
> It would be a Ford.
It's fairly well known that Fords are a bit tougher in general.
The older ones in particular. The 1/2 tons even more particular,
as the Chevy half tons have a suspension that is not much
different than a large car. Where as the Fords used twin I
I've had plenty of both makes, and for work, I would say the
Ford hands down. Not to say the Chevy can't work, but they
won't take the brutal abuse the Fords will.
It may be anecdotal, but I've always preferred Chevy's for
street trucks, and Fords for work trucks.
I still have two Fords at this time. A 68 F-250, and a 74 F-100.
Both run great and I wouldn't be afraid to drive either one anywhere.
Both have six bangers, "300 in the 68, and a 240 in the 74",
both have manual's, and both are so simple and rugged that
you have to be really mean on a vehicle to kill one of them.
Wonder how many 40+ year old cars are still on the road,
and pretty much driven regularly... My 68 F-250 is one of them.
Course like any vehicle, upkeep has to be done.
I'm not saying the engine hasn't been rebuilt and the front end
is original.. I put a new long block in it in about 2002, and
totally rebuilt the front end, including king pins in about 2004.
But for a 41 year old truck, it runs good and is totally reliable
So easy to work on too. You can actually climb in under the
hood of mine to be next to the engine. :/
Parts changes are a breeze. I can rebuild Carter 1 barrels in less
than an hour.
The 68 with the granny gear 4 speed would probably rip
trees out of the ground with the low RPM torque the 300
has. I know it would drag my Corolla down the street kicking
and screaming the whole way if they were connected by chains.
But my favorite street trucks I've had were both Chevy's,
and both had 250 sixes.. A 66, and a 72. Both were step
sides. I had Blazer buckets and console in the 72. Good
street trucks.. The 66 was a step with the small back window.
It's older 250 had more guts than the semi smog version in the
The heaviest duty Chevy truck I had was a 78 3/4 ton. It was
fairly stout as far as Chevy's go. But the front end wasn't quite
as stout as the twin I beams on a older 3/4 ton Ford.