From: JoeSpareBedroom on
"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message
news:4ae73098$0$18744$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net...
> One has to wonder what difference our friend Joe$#itForBrains thinks it
> makes as to why people chose to buy what they buy with their own money?


It matters because in another thread, CE White made claims about who buys
what brands of trucks.


From: JoeSpareBedroom on
"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message
news:4ae72deb$0$18744$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net...
> If one really wants to see who actually has the vehicles with the longer
> overall longevity, go to some of the old car shows. Seldom will one see
> any of the Japanese sedans at those shows.
>
> Plenty of domestics sedans and sporty cars, as well as English and
> European old cars, even Italian cars. Rarely will one see anything from
> Toyota or the other Japanese manufactures, except a rare RX7or "Z" car.


Car shows are not a valid source of the statistics necessary for determining
longevity. You either didn't take a stats course, or you failed the course
you took.


From: m6onz5a on
On Oct 27, 11:04 am, "C. E. White" <cewhi...(a)removemindspring.com>
wrote:
> A Toyota commercial they are running in my area claims that 80% of all
> Toyota sold in the last 20 years are still on the road. This seemed to
> be a very low number to me. What do other think?
>
> I would have thought given Toyota's increase in sales over the last
> twenty years they would have had more like 90% of the cars sold in the
> last 20 years still on the road. Toyota sales have been increasing
> over the last twenty years, so a higher percentage of Toyotas will be
> newer models. Since a high percentage of Toyotas are newer vehicles
> that are more likely to still be on the road, the overall percentage
> of Toyotas sold in the last 20 years will be higher (becasue of the
> newer car bias). For GM, the math works the other way. GM sales have
> been stagnent or actually declining over the last 20 years, so a
> higher percentage of their cars will be older and therefore less
> likely to still be on the road. I am sure the 80% number is based on
> registrations, so it might be that it over estimates the number
> actually in daily use - or under estimates it in cases where cars are
> used off road (or illeagally) and not registered.
>
> Does anyone have any actual numbers? I am confident that 100% of the
> NEW vehicles I purchased in the last 20 years are still on the road,
> but maybe I am an exception.
>
> Here is sort of what I am thinking.....NOT REAL NUMBERS -
>
> For a manufacturer with increasing sales (5% increase per year)
>
> Year     Original   Percent    Total
> Sold     Sales      On road    On Road
> 1990     500000     33%      165000
> 1991     525000     38%      199500
> 1992     551250     43%      237038
> 1993     578813     48%      277830
> 1994     607753      53%     322109
> 1995     638141      58%     370122
> 1996     670048      63%     422130
> 1997     703550      68%     478414
> 1998     738728      72%     531884
> 1999     775664      76%     589505
> 2000     814447      80%     651558
> 2001     855170      84%     718343
> 2002     897928      88%     790177
> 2003     942825      91%     857970
> 2004     989966      93%     920668
> 2005   1039464      96%     997886
> 2006   1091437      97%    1058694
> 2007   1146009      98%    1123089
> 2008   1203310      99%    1191277
> 2009   1263475      99%    1250840
> Total  16532977     80%  13154033
>
> For a manufacturer with slightly decreasing sales (1% decrease per
> year), but same percent still on the road:
>
> 1990     1263475     33%     416947
> 1991     1250840     38%     475319
> 1992     1238332     43%     532483
> 1993     1225949     48%     588455
> 1994     1213689     53%     643255
> 1995     1201552     58%     696900
> 1996     1189537     63%     749408
> 1997     1177641     68%     800796
> 1998     1165865     72%     839423
> 1999     1154206     76%     877197
> 2000     1142664     80%     914131
> 2001     1131238     84%     950240
> 2002     1119925     88%     985534
> 2003     1108726     91%     1008941
> 2004     1097639     93%     1020804
> 2005     1086662     96%     1043196
> 2006     1075796     97%     1043522
> 2007     1065038     98%     1043737
> 2008     1054387     99%     1043843
> 2009     1043843     99%     1033405
> Total   23007003     73%   16707535
>
> The net is, manufacturers that have similar reliability can have
> significantly different percentages of vehicles built in the last 20
> years still on the road. Ergo, the Toyota's ad claim is at best
> meaningless, at worst deliberately misleading....but then I've always
> assumed that the Chevy (or sometimes Dodge) ads that clam their trucks
> are the most reliable and longest lasting (based on registration data)
> are deliberately misleading. So, I don't think Toyota is being
> espeically misleading, but I wonder how many people understand the ad?
> I'll bet many people think Toyota is saying 80% of 20 year old Toyotas
> are still on the road, instead of 80% of the Toyotas sold in the last
> twenty years....isn't marketing wonderful. There is a huge difference
> in the two statements.
>
> Ed

All of those old cars must be hiding somewhere because I hardly ever
see any old ones on the road.
From: Mike Hunter on
You certainly are entitled to your own opinion, Joe$#itForBrains, no mater
how convoluted it may be. At least you are admitting that what I posted
is factual LOL


"Joe$#itForBrains" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:XkGFm.6$qe6.5(a)newsfe14.iad...
> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message
> news:4ae72deb$0$18744$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net...
>> If one really wants to see who actually has the vehicles with the longer
>> overall longevity, go to some of the old car shows. Seldom will one see
>> any of the Japanese sedans at those shows.
>>
>> Plenty of domestics sedans and sporty cars, as well as English and
>> European old cars, even Italian cars. Rarely will one see anything from
>> Toyota or the other Japanese manufactures, except a rare RX7or "Z" car.
>
>
> Car shows are not a valid source of the statistics necessary for
> determining longevity. You either didn't take a stats course, or you
> failed the course you took.
>


From: Mike Hunter on
Why is that, are you watching for motorcycles? ;)


"m6onz5a" <corvair(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9fc98076-0844-447b-be90-844fb63296c4(a)e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 27, 11:04 am, "C. E. White" <cewhi...(a)removemindspring.com>
wrote:
> A Toyota commercial they are running in my area claims that 80% of all
> Toyota sold in the last 20 years are still on the road. This seemed to
> be a very low number to me. What do other think?
>
> I would have thought given Toyota's increase in sales over the last
> twenty years they would have had more like 90% of the cars sold in the
> last 20 years still on the road. Toyota sales have been increasing
> over the last twenty years, so a higher percentage of Toyotas will be
> newer models. Since a high percentage of Toyotas are newer vehicles
> that are more likely to still be on the road, the overall percentage
> of Toyotas sold in the last 20 years will be higher (becasue of the
> newer car bias). For GM, the math works the other way. GM sales have
> been stagnent or actually declining over the last 20 years, so a
> higher percentage of their cars will be older and therefore less
> likely to still be on the road. I am sure the 80% number is based on
> registrations, so it might be that it over estimates the number
> actually in daily use - or under estimates it in cases where cars are
> used off road (or illeagally) and not registered.
>
> Does anyone have any actual numbers? I am confident that 100% of the
> NEW vehicles I purchased in the last 20 years are still on the road,
> but maybe I am an exception.
>
> Here is sort of what I am thinking.....NOT REAL NUMBERS -
>
> For a manufacturer with increasing sales (5% increase per year)
>
> Year Original Percent Total
> Sold Sales On road On Road
> 1990 500000 33% 165000
> 1991 525000 38% 199500
> 1992 551250 43% 237038
> 1993 578813 48% 277830
> 1994 607753 53% 322109
> 1995 638141 58% 370122
> 1996 670048 63% 422130
> 1997 703550 68% 478414
> 1998 738728 72% 531884
> 1999 775664 76% 589505
> 2000 814447 80% 651558
> 2001 855170 84% 718343
> 2002 897928 88% 790177
> 2003 942825 91% 857970
> 2004 989966 93% 920668
> 2005 1039464 96% 997886
> 2006 1091437 97% 1058694
> 2007 1146009 98% 1123089
> 2008 1203310 99% 1191277
> 2009 1263475 99% 1250840
> Total 16532977 80% 13154033
>
> For a manufacturer with slightly decreasing sales (1% decrease per
> year), but same percent still on the road:
>
> 1990 1263475 33% 416947
> 1991 1250840 38% 475319
> 1992 1238332 43% 532483
> 1993 1225949 48% 588455
> 1994 1213689 53% 643255
> 1995 1201552 58% 696900
> 1996 1189537 63% 749408
> 1997 1177641 68% 800796
> 1998 1165865 72% 839423
> 1999 1154206 76% 877197
> 2000 1142664 80% 914131
> 2001 1131238 84% 950240
> 2002 1119925 88% 985534
> 2003 1108726 91% 1008941
> 2004 1097639 93% 1020804
> 2005 1086662 96% 1043196
> 2006 1075796 97% 1043522
> 2007 1065038 98% 1043737
> 2008 1054387 99% 1043843
> 2009 1043843 99% 1033405
> Total 23007003 73% 16707535
>
> The net is, manufacturers that have similar reliability can have
> significantly different percentages of vehicles built in the last 20
> years still on the road. Ergo, the Toyota's ad claim is at best
> meaningless, at worst deliberately misleading....but then I've always
> assumed that the Chevy (or sometimes Dodge) ads that clam their trucks
> are the most reliable and longest lasting (based on registration data)
> are deliberately misleading. So, I don't think Toyota is being
> espeically misleading, but I wonder how many people understand the ad?
> I'll bet many people think Toyota is saying 80% of 20 year old Toyotas
> are still on the road, instead of 80% of the Toyotas sold in the last
> twenty years....isn't marketing wonderful. There is a huge difference
> in the two statements.
>
> Ed

All of those old cars must be hiding somewhere because I hardly ever
see any old ones on the road.