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From: Ashton Crusher on 3 Feb 2010 20:14
On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:46:19 -0500, dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote:

>David Z wrote:
>> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
>> news:KJWdnXp1KKCrZfTWnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>> "David Z" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:7sub38Fs5pU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>> I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the
>>>> fix" in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more conducive
>>>> to getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.
>>>
>>> ********
>>> We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
>>> driver today
>>> and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
>>> else could
>>> he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
>>>
>>> Neither have I .
>>>
>>> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
>>> shift to
>>> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>>
>> That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
>> officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
>> 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
>> (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
>>
>> Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>> included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized this
>> problem?
>
>it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was
>covered by a different recall.


My recollection was that after the first reports came out talking
about a rug it was determined that the vehicle did not have any mats
in it.
From: ransley on 3 Feb 2010 20:23
On Feb 3, 7:06 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, David Z wrote:
> >> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
> >> to shift to
> >> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>
> > That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
> > patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for
> > at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
> > the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
> > neutral?
>
> Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
> average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
> Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
> the gearshift lever.
>
> It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
> become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
> and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
> plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.
>
>
>
> > Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
> > included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
> > this problem?
>
> It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the
car was stopped. I dont think anybody would be able to get their
phone, dial, send, wait, then talk, or even think of that while a
crash was in view. I would do Neutral or R or P and emergency brake,
then ignition, then Call 911. These guys do have training on cars.
From: Vic Smith on 3 Feb 2010 20:23
On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:57:11 -0500, "David Z" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:

>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:ob1km5tg2ua5pg1ql7tialac583t0u7bbn(a)4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, "David Z" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>>>patrol
>>>officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at
>>>least
>>>3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
>>>(?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
>>>
>> I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different
>> shift modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.
>
>What does that mean?
>
>Is he saying that, in some "shift mode," the ES doesn't allow you to shift
>from Drive to Neutral? at high speed? What "shift mode" would that be?
>
Don't know. Too complicated for me. Ask him.
I don't even like that button on my Grand Am shifter that has to be
depressed to move the shift lever.

--Vic

From: David Z on 3 Feb 2010 21:29
"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.02.04.01.05.57.193222(a)e86.GTS...
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, David Z wrote:
>
>>> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
>>> to shift to
>>> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>>
>> That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>> patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down
>> for
>> at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
>> the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
>> neutral?
>
> Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position...

Are you saying that you can't easily shift from drive to neutral in "the
Sport Shift position?"

> ...where average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
> Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
> the gearshift lever.

I heard the 911 call a few times. He had plenty of time. At least 30
seconds or more. I would need no more than 1 or 2 seconds to shift from
drive to neutral.

> It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
> become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
> and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
> plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.
>
>
>>
>> Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>> included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
>> this problem?
>
> It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

Like I said before, it stretches credulity to say that these problems are
not related.


From: David Z on 3 Feb 2010 21:32
"ransley" <Mark_Ransley(a)Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d08d664f-de4d-44ec-a66f-79f4f0d3a9a3(a)u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 3, 7:06 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, David Z wrote:
>> >> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget
>> >> how
>> >> to shift to
>> >> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>>
>> > That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>> > patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down
>> > for
>> > at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
>> > the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
>> > neutral?
>>
>> Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position,
>> where
>> average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
>> Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
>> the gearshift lever.
>>
>> It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people
>> have
>> become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
>> and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
>> plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>> > included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
>> > this problem?
>>
>> It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.
>
> More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the
> car was stopped. I dont think anybody would be able to get their
> phone, dial, send, wait, then talk, or even think of that while a
> crash was in view. I would do Neutral or R or P and emergency brake,
> then ignition, then Call 911. These guys do have training on cars.

He crashed at about 120 mph. He was dead on impact.


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