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From: Tegger on 25 Mar 2010 20:53 ....just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible. <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable it. -- Tegger
From: chuckcar on 25 Mar 2010 21:16 Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18: > ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible. > > <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html> > > The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the > design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, > not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable > it. > No. You'd have to have to have the pin that enables erasing/rewriting of the EEPROM/EAPROM IC used and the hardware (electric and electronic) to support it to be able to do it. One *could* however physically take the ROM out and completely rewrite it, if you could rebuild the module you destroy by doing this. That is entirely possible and anyone could do it with enough technical knowledge, ability and the right pieces. Anyone can buy a PROM programmer. That's all beyond the scope of such an article of course, but it shows what is involved in doing it sucessfully. I'd bet good money that all race cars have a connector for just this purpose. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
From: Ed White on 25 Mar 2010 21:26 On Mar 25, 8:53 pm, Tegger <inva...(a)invalid.inv> wrote: > ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible. > > <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html> > > The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the design > of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, not possible > to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable it. > > -- > Tegger The article was very good and I believe the conclusions are correct (i.e., it is not the electronics). I do wonder about your statement. Anything to back it up? Exactly how does NHTSA closely regulate the design? The firmware is in the ECM, and people are constantly screwing with that. My son has some sort of programer that allows him to screw up the ECM in his Mustang (and I do mean screw it up). I looked at the Toyota shop manual for the RAV4 and it appears to me all the throttle control stuff is handled by the ECM, so I can't see how that is any more secure than any of the other firmware. Ed
From: Tegger on 25 Mar 2010 21:51 chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in news:Xns9D46D713F7AC1chuck(a)127.0.0.1: > Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in > news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18: > >> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible. >> >> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html> >> >> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the >> design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, >> not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable >> it. >> > No. You'd have to have to have the pin that enables erasing/rewriting of > the EEPROM/EAPROM IC used and the hardware (electric and electronic) to > support it to be able to do it. One *could* however physically take the > ROM out and completely rewrite it, if you could rebuild the module you > destroy by doing this. That is entirely possible and anyone could do it > with enough technical knowledge, ability and the right pieces. Anyone > can buy a PROM programmer. Of course. And you could take a roll of sheet steel and turn it into a car body; you could turn a steel billet into a fully-automatic firearm; you could turn a bag of lawn fertilizer into a bomb. > > That's all beyond the scope of such an article of course, but it shows > what is involved in doing it sucessfully. Surely, but nobody's alleging tampering. Instead the allegations are of defects from the factory, and that's where the silliness comes in. -- Tegger
From: Tegger on 25 Mar 2010 22:00
Ed White <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote in news:bb31d261-4a17-4139-9db8-0d14c4b8d873(a)r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com: > On Mar 25, 8:53�pm, Tegger <inva...(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible. >> >> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html> >> >> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the >> design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, >> not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or >> disable it. >> >> -- >> Tegger > > The article was very good and I believe the conclusions are correct > (i.e., it is not the electronics). I do wonder about your statement. > Anything to back it up? A Toyota MDT told me this. He and his cohorts have received extensive factory training on the electronic throttle as part of the normal dealership-tech training. And they've had some very intensive additions to that training on account of the recent controversies > Exactly how does NHTSA closely regulate the design? Couldn't tell you. I can only relate what I've been told by my /very/ reliable source: The electronic-throttle firmware is NOT modifiable; its circuitry is independent of anything else that might control the engine. -- Tegger |