Toyota blames costs, not UAW, for NUMMI pullout
in [Toyota]
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From: Jeff on 5 Sep 2009 18:03 On Sep 5, 3:50 pm, "Mike" <mikehu...(a)lycos.com> wrote: > What part of "must contain 70% American made parts and MATERIALS," did YOU > not understand? I understood what you said clearly. However, appartently GM and the unions didn't, because they make cars with less than 70% US content. Perhaps you could cite evidence that these contracts exist. Because I don't think you have a clue about what you're talking. Jeff > "Tom" <t...(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > > news:h7uf5h$isq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > > > > "Mike" <mikehu...(a)lycos.com> wrote in message > >news:4aa2b868$0$32183$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... > >> What part of "must contain 70% American made parts and MATERIALS," did > >> you not understand? > > >> The cars made in California for example used steel made in the US at the > >> Burns Harbor plant owned by Bethlehem Steel, now MITTAL. All other > >> Toyota plants use Nippon Steel, dummy. > > >> "Jeff" <jeff....(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >>news:9d3ed076-a79c-45a2-82b8-b0b28b6a76cf(a)j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com.... > >> On Sep 1, 1:56 pm, "Mike" <mikehu...(a)lycos.com> wrote: > >>> While it is true that Toyota assembles vehicles in the US of mostly > >>> imported > >>> parts and materials. > > >> Actually, it assembles vehicles in the US with mostly US materials. > >> All the car makers who make cars in the US use parts from the US and > >> from outside the US. In the case of Toyota, > > >>> That is only true of Toyotas NON Union plants, that is > >>> not the case for vehicles made at in the California plant! > > >>> The Union contract there requires that ALL vehicles assembled there, > >>> both GM > >>> and Toyota, must contain 70% American made parts and materials. > > >> You might want to remind NUMMI and UAW about this. Both the Pontiac > >> Vibe and Toyota Corrolla have less than 70% US content. Toyota imports > >> Corrollas from Japan, which explains the lower number. However, GM > >> didn't. > > >>http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Traffic%20Injury%20Con.... > > > .......> > >> An alternative explanation is that you made up the contract or don't > >> know what you're talking about. > > >> Jeff > >>I was in the NUMMI Plant 2 times, many or almost all the dies and other > >>tooling came from Japan > > I saw many coils of steel wrapped in paper with Jap markings. as someone > > who worked with tooling for 35 years > > i was not impressed with the jap tooling. I also worked on some of the > > tooling in a plant that did the aftermarket service > > work for NUMMI. I think the US tooling was better made and ran smoother, > > but we also made our tooling for higher volume.
From: Jeff on 5 Sep 2009 18:06 On Sep 5, 6:00 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" <e...(a)snet.net> wrote: > "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstr...(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message > > >>>> There are more '65 Chevy and Fords there than '65 Datsuns, even as a > >>>> percentage of sales in that years. Older Toyota bodes never lasted > >>>> that long in spite of the drivetrain running about forever. > > >>> What percentage of show cars have 100% original bodywork? In other > >>> words, what percentage have had no body work done at all? > > >> That's impossible to know. > > > In that case, Ed P's comment about "bodes" is meaningless, unless he has > > data about original body work. There might be rules about that in certain > > car shows. I don't know. I'll wait for his response rather than guess. > > You'd have to clarify the category. There are shows specific to certain > makes, certain year ranges, and original versus custom. In a custom > category original body makes no difference. I don't know the rules of > restorations. I do know that if a car is 100% original, it is valued far > more than a better looking car that has a lot of replacements. > > My brother won quite a few shows with a Model A that was 100% original > (except for tires) and had the bill of sale and bills from service in the > 1920's. He sold it because once you show it, not much else to do with it > aside from prevent deterioration. His Mustangs had replacement parts as > needed, but his Pony convertible was all original. It was so pristine, Ford > bought it back from him. > > Getting back on point, one reason you don't find older Japanese cars in > shows is because no one really wanted to bother keeping them. They had bland > style, bland performance, needed a lot of body upkeep, little appeal to a > collector. I know one guy who has a collector car. 196x Vette. He loves to go to the shows and meet his friends there. I can imagine one doing the same thing with any collector car. Jeff
From: Jeff Strickland on 5 Sep 2009 18:09 "Ed Pawlowski" <esp(a)snet.net> wrote in message news:9ZydnVQ3utj7Qj_XnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> There are more '65 Chevy and Fords there than '65 Datsuns, even as a >>>>> percentage of sales in that years. Older Toyota bodes never lasted >>>>> that long in spite of the drivetrain running about forever. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What percentage of show cars have 100% original bodywork? In other >>>> words, what percentage have had no body work done at all? >>>> >>> >>> That's impossible to know. >> >> In that case, Ed P's comment about "bodes" is meaningless, unless he has >> data about original body work. There might be rules about that in certain >> car shows. I don't know. I'll wait for his response rather than guess. > > You'd have to clarify the category. There are shows specific to certain > makes, certain year ranges, and original versus custom. In a custom > category original body makes no difference. In the Custom category, the original body work is almost always EXPECTED to not be original. I don't know the rules of > restorations. I do know that if a car is 100% original, it is valued far > more than a better looking car that has a lot of replacements. > Exzactly. > My brother won quite a few shows with a Model A that was 100% original > (except for tires) and had the bill of sale and bills from service in the > 1920's. He sold it because once you show it, not much else to do with it > aside from prevent deterioration. His Mustangs had replacement parts as > needed, but his Pony convertible was all original. It was so pristine, > Ford bought it back from him. > > Getting back on point, one reason you don't find older Japanese cars in > shows is because no one really wanted to bother keeping them. They had > bland style, bland performance, needed a lot of body upkeep, little appeal > to a collector. > I'm not sure your point on the Japanese cars is accurate. There are plenty of Japanese cars that are worthy of restoration, but the problem they share is that they don't have the history of the early American cars. There are many Mercedes Benz cars that are worth restoring. Japan brought us the Datsun 240Z, and the 2000, and the 210 and a few others. Toyota gave us a few that rank pretty well on the Restore Scale. I would agree that there are more American cars that get restored, but there is wide appeal among restorers for foreign metal.
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 5 Sep 2009 18:22 "Ed Pawlowski" <esp(a)snet.net> wrote in message news:9ZydnVQ3utj7Qj_XnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> There are more '65 Chevy and Fords there than '65 Datsuns, even as a >>>>> percentage of sales in that years. Older Toyota bodes never lasted >>>>> that long in spite of the drivetrain running about forever. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What percentage of show cars have 100% original bodywork? In other >>>> words, what percentage have had no body work done at all? >>>> >>> >>> That's impossible to know. >> >> In that case, Ed P's comment about "bodes" is meaningless, unless he has >> data about original body work. There might be rules about that in certain >> car shows. I don't know. I'll wait for his response rather than guess. > > You'd have to clarify the category. There are shows specific to certain > makes, certain year ranges, and original versus custom. In a custom > category original body makes no difference. I don't know the rules of > restorations. I do know that if a car is 100% original, it is valued far > more than a better looking car that has a lot of replacements. > > My brother won quite a few shows with a Model A that was 100% original > (except for tires) and had the bill of sale and bills from service in the > 1920's. He sold it because once you show it, not much else to do with it > aside from prevent deterioration. His Mustangs had replacement parts as > needed, but his Pony convertible was all original. It was so pristine, > Ford bought it back from him. > > Getting back on point, one reason you don't find older Japanese cars in > shows is because no one really wanted to bother keeping them. They had > bland style, bland performance, needed a lot of body upkeep, little appeal > to a collector. > A 240Z was bland? :-)
From: Ed Pawlowski on 5 Sep 2009 18:31
"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message >> Getting back on point, one reason you don't find older Japanese cars in >> shows is because no one really wanted to bother keeping them. They had >> bland style, bland performance, needed a lot of body upkeep, little >> appeal to a collector. >> > > > A 240Z was bland? :-) But only 6 of them were sold compared to the hundreds of thousands of Celica and Corollas |