From: Wickeddoll´┐Ż on

> C. E. White wrote:
>> "Mike Hunter" ...
>>> Ride in an older model Toyota or Dodge truck, listen to the squeaks and
>>> rattles, it soon become apparent that the 'toughness' IS important in a
>>> truck
>>> mike
>> I have my own toughness test - my 17 year old son. So far only two
>> vehicles have passed - 1999 Ford Ranger and a 2006 Ford Mustang. Failed
>> vehicles - 2003 Saturn Vue, 1997 Pontiac Firebird, 1992 F150 - although
>> both the Firebird and F150 had many miles at the time they failed the
>> test. The F150 failure only cost a few hundred dollars. The Firebird's
>> was terminal. The Vue's failure was partially covered by warranty, but
>> hideously expensive - after it was mobile again I got rid of it. I won't
>> let him touch my Frontier - I can't afford another new truck this year
>> and I don't think the Frontier would last long with him driving.
>> Apparently the Mustang is bullet proof. He has put more miles on it than
>> all the other vehicle combined and the only "failure" was a destroyed
>> rear tire. I can't really blame that on Ford. Then again, as far as I
>> know he hasn't taken the Mustang off road....
>> I wonder if I can get Toyota to lend me a Tundra for him to test. Might
>> make for an interesting experiment.
>> Ed
> Since when are there so many Ford and GM lovers reading a Toyota group?

Because they like to keep trying to convince us that we shouldn't like the
cars that have worked very well for us for a very long time.

> Seems to me that these Ford and GM advocates are getting awfully nervous
> lately. It's actually kind of funny.
> Dante

In a sad way, yes.


From: Wickeddoll´┐Ż on

"Ed White" ...
"larry moe 'n curly" >
> wrote:
>> Evil top poster Mike Hunter wrote:
>> > The Tundra is a second rate truck compared to what GM, Ford and
>> > Dodge have to offer and for less money.
>> If the trucks from GM, Ford, and Dodge are superior, why can't be sold
>> for higher prices than the Tundra?
> That is a very good question. I spent a lot of time shopping for a new
> truck last year. I didn't want a full size truck. I wanted someting a
> little smaller, but bigger than a Ranger. However, I did priced larger
> trucks. I was shocked when I found I could get an F250 for less than a
> Tundra. It was ridiculous. I don't understand how Toyota could sell
> one at all. A fourth rate truck for a first rate price. It was silly.
> I didn't want the F250, and couldn't stomach the Toyota dealers. I
> tried to negotiate a price for a Tacoma, but the Toyota dealers were
> so full of s$%t that I ended up in a Frontier. Tacomas are over
> priced to begin with, and the local dealers try to add ridiculous doc
> fees. Yet despite screwing their Customers they are able to sell the
> trucks. It make me think Toyota buyers are brain dead. If you go
> merely by specifications, the Tacoma is inferior to the Frontier. If
> you drive one, it is even more inferior. Yet Toyota charges thousand
> more. Go figure. Do Toyota buyers even consider anything else?
> Ed

Actually, if I wanted a very large vehicle, I'd probably go domestic.

Don't lump us all into a category without really knowing what's what.


From: C. E. White on

"Dante" <dante(a)> wrote in message

> Do you really think that many people are brain dead? Seriously. Put your
> pride aside and look at the facts. It is not likely that there are that
> many brain dead people out there. This means that for some reason Toyotas
> must be superior. If you've never owned one then I can see your
> confusion.

I owned one once, a Cressida. By far the worst car I ever owned. My SO has a
brand new RAV4. It is not a bad car, but it cost at least $4,000 more than a
similarly equipped Escape. I've driven both and there is no way the RAV4 is
worth $4k more. And before you tell me how much more reliable the RAV4 will
be, my younger Sister has a 6 year old Escape. Total repairs have amounted
to $13 (I replaced a bad cruise control cable). I can't see where a $13
repair would justify spending $4k.

The brain dead part is that some people just seem to be Toyota drones. I
know one family that will buy nothing else. They haven't owned anything else
in 25 years. If I suggest they ought to at least look at something else,
they act like I don't get it. When I ask why they don't consider a domestic
car, they make some vague reference to a 1976 Chevrolet they owned and how
it was horrible. They just bought a new Prius. Does that give you a clue
about how concerned they are about wisely spending money? Interestingly, the
only thing they had to say about the Prius was how much smaller it seemed
than the Camry it replaced. Hmmmmm. Another friend of mine who is a big fan
of Hondas goes on and on about the horrible third hand Pontiac he once
owned. The car was 12 years old with 150,000 miles on it when he got it.
Yet he acts like it should have been as good as a new Accord. My older
Sister owned an Accord of similar vintage to the Pontiac. After 6 years and
85,000 it was a pretty horrible car itself. Or then there is the guy at work
that tell me how much quieter his Honda Pilot is than his old F150. What did
he expect? He bought a truck and was unhappy it wasn't a car. Duh....

At least I consider multiple brands when I go out to buy something. Heck I
test drove three Toyota trucks before I finally gave up on getting a
reasonable deal. I owned a Nissan in the past and it was OK' CR gave the
Frontier a "recommended" rating, so I figured it wouldn't be much different
in terms of reliability than the much higher priced Tacoma. My SO's father
has a Tacoma similar to my Nissan. So far we have similar experiences, but I
probably stress mind a little more than he does (at least judging by the
amount of mud caked on mine). He's had his back to the dealer twice for
problems, mine has been back three times. The 1992 F150 I got rid of, wasn't
back for repairs for the first 12 years I owned it.


From: dh on
"C. E. White" <cewhite(a)> wrote in message
> "Dante" <dante(a)> wrote in message
> news:es7e7p$8mu$1(a)
> The brain dead part is that some people just seem to be Toyota drones. I
> know one family that will buy nothing else.

I know people like that. If they're perfectly satisfied with their
experience and the value, why should they switch?

They should switch to satisfy *you*?


Posted via a free Usenet account from

From: Jeff on

"Ed White" <ce.white3(a)> wrote in message
> On Mar 1, 11:19 am, "Jeff" <n...(a)> wrote:
>> The only question I have is why you would have to pay for a new truck if
>> he
>> got his hands on your Frontier.
> After a year with the Frontier, I am unimpressed with it "toughness."
> It is a decent ride around truck, but I'd hate to subject it to
> anything rough. The frame is pathetic looking compared even to a
> Ranger. The engine is a great race car engine, but a lousy truck
> engine. The truck rides nicely, but by Father's 8 year old Ranger will
> haul a larger load without bottoming out the springs. The Nissan 4WD
> system works well, but it worried the heck out of me yesterday when it
> refused to shift back to 2WD (I had driven throught a rather
> challenging mud hole).
>> I believe in natural consequences. If a child runs into a wall, he soon
>> learns that it hurts and stops running into the wall.
> How about one that breaksa bone when he runs into the you
> just let them tough it out?
>> The natural consequence of being rough with a Vue is that he pays for the
>> repairs, not you. He will learn not to be rough with vehicles or learn to
>> get a 2nd job.
> I have one goal for my Son - get him out of high school and into
> college. I put him to work on my farm, but anything that interferes
> with school is forbidden. My son has to get to school. I have three
> choices - take him and pick him up daily, pay someone to do it, or let
> him drive. The last option was the cheapest. If I said he had to pay
> for the repairs to the Vue, he wouldn't be able to, so I'd end up
> carrying him to school and paying for the Vue. He actually paid for
> the Firebird out of his own savings - it was so horrible he wiped his
> savings out. Getting the Mustang has worked out really well. It was
> dirt cheap, and has been bullet proof. The amount I was spending on
> gas has even gone down. It is an unbelieveable bargin.
> Ed

Teenagers are not that good as drivers. The Mustang can go too fast for a
teenager. If you son gets killed or kills someone else or there is a serious
injury, I wonder how cheap it will turn out.