Toyota Tundra: First Impression
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From: Mike Hunter on 6 Mar 2007 18:06 It is not called 'Japan Incorporated for nothing. The Japanese corporations and consumers support their own economy first, they buy from other Japanese before they will buy from others. America should be so smart. mike "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message news:ebfec$45edd820$44a4a10d$2427(a)msgid.meganewsservers.com... > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message > news:45ed6982$1(a)kcnews01... >> >> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message >> news:2850c$45ec95cd$44a4a10d$12601(a)msgid.meganewsservers.com... >>> The Toyota's ownership in Aisin goes back way before they even came to >>> the U.S. From my "insiders" experience, I'd say that Toyota developed >>> the technology and had Aisin produce it, which is how Toyota usually >>> works. > >> You are right about Toyota having a long term ownership interest in >> Aisin-Warner (or as it is now know Aisin AW). However, I think you are >> wrong about Toyota developing the hybrid technology in-house. I can >> remember articles on Volvo working with Aisin more than 15 years ago. > > Some Japanese geography and cultural background: > > Tokai is a city in Aichi prefecture, where Toyota is headquartered, and > where the Toyoda family has tremendous influence and respect. > > "Kogyo" means "industries." > > Toyota made automatic looms and sewing machines before they got into the > car business, and continues to make commercial sewing equipment under its > own brand and as an OEM supplier. > > "Keiretsu" is the circle, or family of companies in a group. Some of the > big keiretsus in are Toyota, Mitsubishi, Itochu, Mitsui, etc. What sets > Toyota's keiretsu apart from the other mega-keiretsus is that it is still > controlled by the Toyoda family. > > Aisin was established as Tokai Hikoki (Tokai Aircraft) in 1943 and > produced aircraft engines. Not many companies pop up from nothing and > start producing something as sophisticated as aircraft engines during war > time. Capital, manufacturing expertise, and engineering expertise has to > come from somewhere, and although it is not written in any web sites, I > would guess that Tokai Hikoki was founded by the Tododa Keiretsu. > > In September 1945 (timing happens to coincide with the end of WW II), > Tokai Hikoki started making sewing machines and automotive parts. IMHO, > the likelihood that a company in Toyota's back yard has the werewithall to > switch from making airpane engines to making exactly what Toyota happens > to need within months of a war's end without major backing from somewhere > is pretty nuch nil. > > Aisin's pronunciation is "eye - shin." The "Ai" part of the name come > from Aichi prefecture, were Toyota is headquartered. The "shin" part of > the name means new, and came from Shinkawa Kogyo ("new river industries). > > If you compare the histroy of Aisin and Toyota and are familiar with the > Japanese business culture, it is obvious that Toyota did not acquire > Aisin - Toyota founded and bankrolled Aisin, and a gentleman whose last > name happens to be Toyoda is Aisin's chairman. > > The same history and backgound applies to Nippon Denso. > >> Probably the "Toyota" hybrid technology is a accumulation of technology >> from many sources. Still Aisin AW builds the main components for both >> Toyota and Ford, but they only acknowledge building them for Ford. They >> never mention that they also build hybrid components for Toyota. For that >> matter, you'd never know they built Toyota automatic transmissions >> either. >> >> Ed > > Yup, that is because Aisin and Nippon Denso are Toyota's in-house > suppliers. > -- > > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) >
From: Wickeddoll� on 6 Mar 2007 18:12 "C. E. White" ... > > "Wickeddoll�" ... > >> I'm wondering why CE White posts as two different aliases. > > Because I post from two or three different computers. Some have a > newsreader installed, some do not. For ones with newsreaders, I am > cewhite. When I post from Google, I am Ed White. There is no subterfuge > involved, just different computers. > > Ed > I knew you weren't pretending to be someone else, just wondered why you didn't have the same alias on both puters. I'm "Wickeddoll" on both my work and home puters. Natalie
From: Jeff on 6 Mar 2007 21:28 "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:ZPudnYY_l4LdM3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d(a)ptd.net... > The hybrid technology was developed in a joint venture with Volvo (Ford,) > Toyota, Aisin and another Japanese auto company. There are all cross > licensed to use that technology. Toyota eventually bought the company. > Non Japanese can not 'own' a Japanese company. > > > mike > > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message > news:45ed6982$1(a)kcnews01... >> >> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message >> news:2850c$45ec95cd$44a4a10d$12601(a)msgid.meganewsservers.com... >>> The Toyota's ownership in Aisin goes back way before they even came to >>> the U.S. From my "insiders" experience, I'd say that Toyota developed >>> the technology and had Aisin produce it, which is how Toyota usually >>> works. >> >> You are right about Toyota having a long term ownership interest in >> Aisin-Warner (or as it is now know Aisin AW). However, I think you are >> wrong about Toyota developing the hybrid technology in-house. I can >> remember articles on Volvo working with Aisin more than 15 years ago. >> Probably the "Toyota" hybrid technology is a accumulation of technology >> from many sources. Still Aisin AW builds the main components for both >> Toyota and Ford, but they only acknowledge building them for Ford. They >> never mention that they also build hybrid components for Toyota. For that >> matter, you'd never know they built Toyota automatic transmissions >> either. >> >> Ed American companies can own a portion of a Japanese company. GM use to own 49% of Isuzu. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_2001_Jan/ai_71359149 What the limit of foriegn ownership is, I don't know. Jeff
From: Mike Hunter on 7 Mar 2007 16:05 The joint venture was with the others joining Aisin, before Toyota bought the company, not at Toyota. A non Japanese can not own a Japanese company or eve have a member of the board of a Japanese company no matter how muck of a percentage of their ownership. Search the efforts of a fellow named Boon Pickens in the eighties for the particulars. They don't tell you they build the six speed tranny that was first used in the FWD 2006 Ford 500/ Montigo, Fusion/Melon.and Zephyr. It is the exact SAME tranny that is used in the 2007 versions as well as the Camry, Lexus V6, Edge and the MKZ and MKX. Lincolns. ;) mike "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message news:JrpHh.1877$3i.253(a)trnddc01... > > "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message > news:ZPudnYY_l4LdM3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >> The hybrid technology was developed in a joint venture with Volvo (Ford,) >> Toyota, Aisin and another Japanese auto company. There are all cross >> licensed to use that technology. Toyota eventually bought the company. >> Non Japanese can not 'own' a Japanese company. >> >> >> mike >> >> >> "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message >>> You are right about Toyota having a long term ownership interest in >>> Aisin-Warner (or as it is now know Aisin AW). However, I think you are >>> wrong about Toyota developing the hybrid technology in-house. I can >>> remember articles on Volvo working with Aisin more than 15 years ago. >>> Probably the "Toyota" hybrid technology is a accumulation of technology >>> from many sources. Still Aisin AW builds the main components for both >>> Toyota and Ford, but they only acknowledge building them for Ford. They >>> never mention that they also build hybrid components for Toyota. For >>> that matter, you'd never know they built Toyota automatic transmissions >>> either. >>> >>> Ed > > American companies can own a portion of a Japanese company. GM use to own > 49% of Isuzu. > What the limit of foriegn ownership is, I don't know. > > Jeff
From: Jeff on 7 Mar 2007 16:33
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:48ydnZsJjbjJtHLYnZ2dnUVZ_oannZ2d(a)ptd.net... > The joint venture was with the others joining Aisin, before Toyota bought > the company, not at Toyota. > > A non Japanese can not own a Japanese company or eve have a member of the > board of a Japanese company no matter how muck of a percentage of their > ownership. Search the efforts of a fellow named Boon Pickens in the > eighties for the particulars. > > They don't tell you they build the six speed tranny that was first used in > the FWD 2006 Ford 500/ Montigo, Fusion/Melon.and Zephyr. It is the exact > SAME tranny that is used in the 2007 versions as well as the Camry, Lexus > V6, Edge and the MKZ and MKX. Lincolns. ;) > > > mike > > > "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message > news:JrpHh.1877$3i.253(a)trnddc01... >> >> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >> news:ZPudnYY_l4LdM3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>> The hybrid technology was developed in a joint venture with Volvo >>> (Ford,) Toyota, Aisin and another Japanese auto company. There are all >>> cross licensed to use that technology. Toyota eventually bought the >>> company. Non Japanese can not 'own' a Japanese company. >>> >>> >>> mike >>> >>> >>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message > >>>> You are right about Toyota having a long term ownership interest in >>>> Aisin-Warner (or as it is now know Aisin AW). However, I think you are >>>> wrong about Toyota developing the hybrid technology in-house. I can >>>> remember articles on Volvo working with Aisin more than 15 years ago. >>>> Probably the "Toyota" hybrid technology is a accumulation of technology >>>> from many sources. Still Aisin AW builds the main components for both >>>> Toyota and Ford, but they only acknowledge building them for Ford. They >>>> never mention that they also build hybrid components for Toyota. For >>>> that matter, you'd never know they built Toyota automatic transmissions >>>> either. >>>> >>>> Ed >> >> American companies can own a portion of a Japanese company. GM use to own >> 49% of Isuzu. > > >> What the limit of foriegn ownership is, I don't know. >> >> Jeff The directors of Mazda include John Park (Prepresentative Directory and Vice Chairman of the Board), Representative Director David Friedman (managing Executive Officer and CFO, too), and Director Daniel Morris (he is also in charge of Marketing). Those are not Japanese names. And Executive VP is also Robert Grazaino, another non-Japanese name. Most of the directors and executive offices do have Japanese names, however. I did take your advice to look up Boon Pickens. I found this article where they talk about foreign investors taking over Japanese companies: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_06/b3869151_mz035.htm I guess foreign investors can takeover Japanese companies. But the environment in Japan prevents that from happening. Jeff |