Toyota Tundra: First Impression
in [Toyota]
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From: Jeff on 5 Mar 2007 14:05 "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:1uqdnUXCDNin9HHYnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d(a)ptd.net... > You are free to believe whatever you choose. > > > mike > > > "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message > news:v2LGh.771$nU5.277(a)trnddc04... >> >> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >> news:RaKdnV9UCNly83bYnZ2dnUVZ_tGlnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>> Depends on how many trucks the dealership sells in a week. If they >>> sell 100 a week they need around a 1000 on hand . If they sell only 10, >>> 80 will do. A sixty day supply on the ground is ideal, except at intro >>> in the fall through balance out in the spring, then a ninety day supply >>> is better. Don't for get Ford sells F150s at a rate around six times >>> that of the Tundra and Ford has around twice as many dealerships >>> >>> >>> mike >>> >>> >>> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message >>> news:7oJGh.582$3i.42(a)trnddc01... >>>> >>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >>>> news:efqdnTwdnoQVxnbYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>>>> Can't prove it by me, my local Chevy dealer has two dozen Toyotas of >>>>> all types on his lot. Do a search and I believe you will find the >>>>> 2006 Tundra holds the record for on unsold vehicles LOL >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> From these reports, you can see that Toyota is selling its new truck >>>> pretty fast. It has about 4 or 5 weeks supply. That compares to about >>>> 15 weeks supply for Fords. >>>> >>>> The big 3 now have the most unsold inventory as well as the how long >>>> the supply will last, i.e., how many days it will take to sell the same >>>> number of vehicles as they have in inventory. >>>> >>>> Jeff >> >> A fifteen-week supply is 2.5 times a six-week supply. Ford has had to >> shut down production to get rid of its supply. Part of the reason is that >> Ford is also decreasing the number of vehicles it sells to rental fleets. >> >> Considering that Ford and GM have a much bigger supply than Toyota, and >> that the supply is far bigger than they want, Ford and GM have too much >> inventory. This has been problematic for the big 3 in the last few years, >> at least. >> >> Jeff And so are you. Jeff
From: dh on 5 Mar 2007 08:00 "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message news:a2MGh.823$9g5.428(a)trnddc08... > "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message > news:45eb7dcd$1$16335$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... >> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message >> news:85LGh.772$nU5.719(a)trnddc04... >>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >>> news:LYmdndZ2Nqnp8nbYnZ2dnUVZ_vmqnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>>> Do your own homework....son ;) >>>> >>>> Gotta go, our plane is about to land in Philly >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:lFJGh.584$3i.371(a)trnddc01... >>>>> >>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:XcednbMmnrzdw3bYnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>>>>> That becomes painfully obvious when one compares the Vibe and The >>>>>> Matrix as well. The proof is in the pudding as they say, when it >>>>>> comes to what buyers prefer. The Escape is the number one selling >>>>>> small SUV. The guys in this NG would like to have us believe all >>>>>> Toyotas are better than any others. Buyers think otherwise. The only >>>>>> Toyotas that are number one sellers in their class are the Camry and >>>>>> the Prius. I every other, of the twenty some classes, some other >>>>>> manufacturer is number one and the majority of number one sellers are >>>>>> domestics. >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:keEGh.8537$_73.7442(a)newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:45e8ebe9$0$16266$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just how are they screwing themselves? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My SO spent at least $4k more for her RAV4 than for a similarly >>>>>>> equipped Escape. She doesn't really care about a lot of things, she >>>>>>> just wants the car to go. She wouldn't even consider an Escape. >>>>>>> Based on the experiences of people I personally know, the is likely >>>>>>> to just as well as the RAV4 for $4k less.Throwing away $4K because >>>>>>> it says "Toyota" is screwing yourself. Another friend bought a >>>>>>> Tacoma. He made $5k more for his Tacoma than I paid for my better >>>>>>> equipped Frontier. Throwing away $5k because it says "Toyota" is >>>>>>> screwing yourself.. Not even considering anything unless it says >>>>>>> "Toyota" on the vehicle is screwing yourself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ed >>>>> >>>>> I would love to the list of the top selling vehicles in each class. Do >>>>> you have a link to it? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> jeff >>> >>> Thanks for the kind reply, dad. I have not been able to find the >>> figures. >>> >>> I really appreciate the way you share your information with others. >>> >>> How did you get internet access above ground? >>> >>> Jeff >> >> "Put up or shut up" is a concept alien to "mike hunt." The only list was >> in his head, anyway. > > I am not going to argue you points. > > I would like to see the actual lists, though. Not that I don't believe > Mike (aka, "dad"), but, rather, I am curious about how all the cars and > trucks did. > > Jeff I can't find info on a model-by-model basis for Toyota but if you go to the GM site, www.gm.com, and click on "gm news", their latest sales report should be right there and it is broken out fairly nicely (although all their full-size trucks are lumped in one category for each of GMC and Chevrolet). Ford, I think, was about equally easy to find. Toyota is www.toyota.com and point to the "about toyota" tab, then "about toyota" again and then check news (I hate those interactive menu-lets) and then check press releases, I think you'll find the most recent summary fairly easily. It's just a summary, though, that hits highlights. I've seen model-by-model figures somewhere but failed to bookmark it. To get this stuff readily, I think one must subscribe to an industry news source (for $$). It would be something of a nuisance to piece this together from mfr's individual reports. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: DH on 5 Mar 2007 12:12 "Ed White" <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:1173101785.221015.18140(a)c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > From: "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> > Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: Toyota Tundra: First Impression >> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message >> news:p9HGh.9124$Jl.3538(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>> "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute(a)DunderMifflin.com> > wrote in >>> message news:4mcmu29eul3g9otl4kvse3q9v5jnc7qni3(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:29:36 GMT, "C. E. White" >>>> <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> She wouldn't even consider an Escape. >>>> >>>> Are you aware that certain years and models of Ford Escape set new >>>> lows for resale value percentage? >>> >>> And this would make absolutely no difference to her. Her old Camry was > a >>> hard sale at $500. Her old Pymouth van was worth just as much ($500) to >>> the junk yard . >>> >>> And this sounds like a really good reason to purchase a 1 or 2 year old >>> used Escape. >> >> Yeah, except she wanted a new car. > > True. Like me, she doesn't want a used car, even a used Toyota. As I > said before, ressale value is irrelevant. > >>> I looked at the resale valuses for Escapes. Looks like for the first two >>> years they really take a big hit. This is probably a result of all the >>> incentives Ford has been offering on new Escapes. For most people, the >>> payments on a new Escape would be less than the payements on a 2 or 3 >>> year old Escape. This of course drives the resale value down. After the >>> vehicles are more than 3 years old, the RAV4 and Escape resale values >>> are >>> much closer, even though RAV4 buyers paid more for their vehiecles. >> >> Reality check - back then, new Ravs were not as expensive as today. > > According to CARS.COM, a 2004 RAV4 Front Wheel Drive Manual > Transmission Base Model had a list price of $18,450 (manual windows, > no A/C). And then there's the reality price. Dealers were a little more aggressive in selling Ravs in 2004 and prices are firmer, now (the V6 is a hot seller). Will CARS.COM list incentives from 2004? > My SO just bought a 2007 Automatic with A/C, power windows, > power locks, upgrade stero and park pilot etc, for 22K (Base price > with an automatic is $20,950). I don't see much difference in the > price. In fact compared to the 2004, the 2007 appears to be a bargin. > >>> Escape XLS - 4 cylinder 2WD Automatic Private Party Value, Good >>> Condition, Average Mileage >>> >>> 2001 - 6985 >>> 2002 - 8630 >>> 2003 - 9005 >>> 2004 - 10320 >>> 2005 - 11620 >>> >>> RAV4 - 4 cylinder, 2WD, Automatic, Private Party Value, Good Condition, >>> Average Mileage >>> >>> 2001 - 8615 >>> 2002 - 9025 >>> 2003 - 11835 >>> 2004 - 14550 >>> 2005 - 16315 >> >> Reality check - I just looked to see what's offered for sale around here >> in Escapes and Ravs. The median asking price for Escapes is $5,000 less >> than for the Rav ($9K vs $14K). > > I was quoting KBB numbers for similarly equipped vehicle with similar > mileage. "Asking" prices are not "getting" prices, but you probably > know that. Yes. However, the asking price is a suggestion of confidence on the part of the seller and if it's too far out of whack with reality, no one will be interested in calling and working out the "real" price. Edmunds is showing a lot more "daylight" between their prices. $3K on trade-in for the '01, for example. The large gap between asking prices on the web suggests I should put more faith in Edmunds. > Anybody that is asking 14K for a RAV4 that is more than 3 > years old is living in fantasy land. Anyone who pays that much is not > too bright. I am confident I could buy a new 4 cylinder Escape for > less than $17K. You may well be right, which is one of the reasons the Escape was on my short list this summer. My spouse would not even entertain the idea of another Ford in the driveway, however. > No matter now great you think a RAV4 is, there is no > way a 4 year old RAV4 is better than a new Escape. Only a true Toyota > drone would be that silly. > Well, I didn't pay $14K for a 4-year old Rav. However, the Edmunds trade-in on what I did buy this summer is now higher than what I paid (including the extra 7K miles on it since I bought it). I wouldn't call it a trend... but I was lucky. > I did an Autotrader search on 2004 RAV4s and 2004 Escapes. There was > only one 2004 RAV4 listed in my area, the asking price was $18988. > There were 23 2004 Escapes listed with asking prices from 12,950 to > 19,900. Cars.com also only had one RAV4 listed in my area (a different > one) and the asking price for it was $18480. Cars.Com listed 12 2004 > Escapes with asking prices ranging from $11,995 to $18,995. The local > CARMAX didn't have a 2004 RAV4. They did have three 2004 Escapes - > $14,988 to $16,998. I did an extended CARMAX search and found there > were six 2WD 2004 RAV4s in their network, prices ranged from $15998 to > $18599. > > I can't see where there is as great a variation in "asking" prices as > you indicated (at least for a three year old model). Not sure about > "selling" prices. Edmunds.com give a 2004 RAV4 a True Market Value > Private Party price of $12,986. The similar TMV for a base 2004 Escape > is $12,274. Again not much difference. > > If you want to check my numbers, use zip code 27609 and a 50 mile > radius. Maybe some of this is regional differences. I wonder if I should travel to 27609 the next time I want a Toyota? >>>> I didn't think so... <G> >>> >>> I ponited out it is irrelevant to someone who drives a car until it is >>> dirt. >>> >>> Ed >> >> Actually, it's not. Needs change and if you've bought a car that >> depreciates like it was going over a cliff, that limits your options when >> your needs change. > > I can't imagine what sort of need would casue my SO to change away > from a RAV4 or Escape. It is not like she bought a Corvette and > suddenly had three kids. Your SO is just one instance of "people." Needs DO change. If she can guarantee her car needs won't change, that's great. However, for the rest of us, life is uncertain, even to what we expect to drive next year. Resale value matters even if you don't plan to resell. >> And superior long-term reliability is *really* important to people who >> drive the car forever. I don't think Ford's there quite yet. > > This is where you have to go with what has works for you - > > My younger Sister has a 2001 Escape. Total repairs to date - $13. The Escape is one of Ford's best rated (for reliability) products, isn't it? > My Mother and Father owned nothing but Ford products since 1957. In > the last 25 years, I think the total amount they paid on repairs would > be less than $700 and I think most of that would be mufflers on pick- > up trucks. Other than two or three muflers, the only repairs that > come to mind were a power seat on a Grand Marquis (a 7 year old Greand > Marquis and only after my Mother jamed it with an umbrella), and a > water pump on a 1992 Ranger. I have not been quite as lucky with my > Fords, since 1996, I actually had to buy a coil pack, a multifunction > switch, and an alternator (of coruse the Cressida I owned needed three > alternators, a starter, an AC condensor, three relays, a power window > switch, and the transmission was acting up when we dumped it). Now my > SO admittedly drove her old Camry many miles, but after I met her and > before she finally sold the car (around 4 years) she had to have major > engine and transmssion work (hundreds of dollars), multiple mufflers, > a drive shaft, and an alternator. So based on the experiences of > thoseclosest to me, I'd rate Fords far more reliable than Toyotas. > This certainly doesn't prove anything, but then neither do individuals > who have had good luck with Toyotas. With that background, you're going to get something from your Ford purchase that I wouldn't: confidence. What's the value of that? And confidence is reflected in market pricing. You're lucky to be getting confidence at a bargain. I have to pay for it. Now, if I'd had that kind of luck with Ford, we'd be driving an Escape Hybrid today (hey, props to Ford for delivering a real hybrid while GM dithers and I would have liked to get a real hybrid at a bargain price). If my brother had that kind of luck with Fords, he wouldn't be driving VAGs today because of transmission failures in both his Windstar (company car - dodged a bullet) and his Taurus (no such luck, he paid for the repair). My b-i-l wouldn't be driving a Sienna and a Corolla. My in-laws were a solid Ford family as recently as 15 years ago. They are ALL driving imports, now, except one b-i-l, who's unhappy and planning to change (when last seen, he was openly admiring Asian imports). I've driven one Ford product in the last few years, my f-i-l's late-model but just-out-of-warranty plus-size SUV. I drove it less than 5 miles but imagine my joy to be at the controls when the brakes failed. Those buggers don't stop real well on just the e-brake and downshifting. If everybody had the experience you've had, CR would notice this, JDPower would notice this, Edmunds would notice this and Ford resale values would be high and Fords would sell at or near MSRP with no givebacks. The market is, collectively, not particularly stupid. > BTW consumers at Edmunds did give the 2004 RAV4 a slightly higher > rating than the 2004 Escape (9.5 vs 8.9). If you look at the 2004 > Escape at Consumer Reports, all areas were average to much better > than average, with an overall better than average rating. The RAV4 > did get a much better than average rating. Consumer Reports estimated > the retail price of a 2004 RAV4 as $14200 to $18200. They estimated > the retail price of a 2004 Escape as $9800 to $16100. > > Ed The narrower difference at the top end might be due to more luxurious optioning available on the Escape (the Rav might have been available with leather but in it's best trim it did not try to be a luxury car) or the V6 option (not available in the Rav4 in '04). The low end is probably a better comparison. And, when doing price comparisons, it's useful to remember that, even today, 40% of consumers in the US WILL NOT CONSIDER an import. That's Detroit's base and they help prop up Detroiter prices and hold the line on import prices. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Jeff on 5 Mar 2007 14:17 "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:45ec433b$0$16279$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... <...> > Now, if I'd had that kind of luck with Ford, we'd be driving an Escape > Hybrid today (hey, props to Ford for delivering a real hybrid while GM > dithers and I would have liked to get a real hybrid at a bargain price). Don't forget that Toyota designed the hybrid components in the Escape (they are similar to the ones in the Prius). They get some of hte props, too. Jeff
From: Mike Hunter on 5 Mar 2007 14:28
I don't bookmark every site I visit, but from memory from Commerce Dept for 2006 Small car Civic Mid sedan Camry Hybrid Pruis Small SUV Escape Mid SUV Explorer Luxury SUV Escalade. Small luxury Acura Small truck Dakota Full truck F150 Small Min Van Caravan Large Van Ford 'Econoline If you need more, do a search mike "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message news:a2MGh.823$9g5.428(a)trnddc08... > > "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message > news:45eb7dcd$1$16335$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... >> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message >> news:85LGh.772$nU5.719(a)trnddc04... >>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >>> news:LYmdndZ2Nqnp8nbYnZ2dnUVZ_vmqnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>>> Do your own homework....son ;) >>>> >>>> Gotta go, our plane is about to land in Philly >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:lFJGh.584$3i.371(a)trnddc01... >>>>> >>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:XcednbMmnrzdw3bYnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>>>>> That becomes painfully obvious when one compares the Vibe and The >>>>>> Matrix as well. The proof is in the pudding as they say, when it >>>>>> comes to what buyers prefer. The Escape is the number one selling >>>>>> small SUV. The guys in this NG would like to have us believe all >>>>>> Toyotas are better than any others. Buyers think otherwise. The only >>>>>> Toyotas that are number one sellers in their class are the Camry and >>>>>> the Prius. I every other, of the twenty some classes, some other >>>>>> manufacturer is number one and the majority of number one sellers are >>>>>> domestics. >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:keEGh.8537$_73.7442(a)newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:45e8ebe9$0$16266$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just how are they screwing themselves? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My SO spent at least $4k more for her RAV4 than for a similarly >>>>>>> equipped Escape. She doesn't really care about a lot of things, she >>>>>>> just wants the car to go. She wouldn't even consider an Escape. >>>>>>> Based on the experiences of people I personally know, the is likely >>>>>>> to just as well as the RAV4 for $4k less.Throwing away $4K because >>>>>>> it says "Toyota" is screwing yourself. Another friend bought a >>>>>>> Tacoma. He made $5k more for his Tacoma than I paid for my better >>>>>>> equipped Frontier. Throwing away $5k because it says "Toyota" is >>>>>>> screwing yourself.. Not even considering anything unless it says >>>>>>> "Toyota" on the vehicle is screwing yourself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ed >>>>> >>>>> I would love to the list of the top selling vehicles in each class. Do >>>>> you have a link to it? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> jeff >>> >>> Thanks for the kind reply, dad. I have not been able to find the >>> figures. >>> >>> I really appreciate the way you share your information with others. >>> >>> How did you get internet access above ground? >>> >>> Jeff >> >> "Put up or shut up" is a concept alien to "mike hunt." The only list was >> in his head, anyway. > > I am not going to argue you points. > > I would like to see the actual lists, though. Not that I don't believe > Mike (aka, "dad"), but, rather, I am curious about how all the cars and > trucks did. > > Jeff |