From: Jeff on

"dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message
news:45eb7dcd$1$16335$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com...
> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:85LGh.772$nU5.719(a)trnddc04...
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:LYmdndZ2Nqnp8nbYnZ2dnUVZ_vmqnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>> Do your own homework....son ;)
>>>
>>> Gotta go, our plane is about to land in Philly
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:lFJGh.584$3i.371(a)trnddc01...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:XcednbMmnrzdw3bYnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>>>> That becomes painfully obvious when one compares the Vibe and The
>>>>> Matrix as well. The proof is in the pudding as they say, when it
>>>>> comes to what buyers prefer. The Escape is the number one selling
>>>>> small SUV. The guys in this NG would like to have us believe all
>>>>> Toyotas are better than any others. Buyers think otherwise. The only
>>>>> Toyotas that are number one sellers in their class are the Camry and
>>>>> the Prius. I every other, of the twenty some classes, some other
>>>>> manufacturer is number one and the majority of number one sellers are
>>>>> domestics.
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:keEGh.8537$_73.7442(a)newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:45e8ebe9$0$16266$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just how are they screwing themselves?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My SO spent at least $4k more for her RAV4 than for a similarly
>>>>>> equipped Escape. She doesn't really care about a lot of things, she
>>>>>> just wants the car to go. She wouldn't even consider an Escape. Based
>>>>>> on the experiences of people I personally know, the is likely to just
>>>>>> as well as the RAV4 for $4k less.Throwing away $4K because it says
>>>>>> "Toyota" is screwing yourself. Another friend bought a Tacoma. He
>>>>>> made $5k more for his Tacoma than I paid for my better equipped
>>>>>> Frontier. Throwing away $5k because it says "Toyota" is screwing
>>>>>> yourself.. Not even considering anything unless it says "Toyota" on
>>>>>> the vehicle is screwing yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> I would love to the list of the top selling vehicles in each class. Do
>>>> you have a link to it?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> jeff
>>
>> Thanks for the kind reply, dad. I have not been able to find the figures.
>>
>> I really appreciate the way you share your information with others.
>>
>> How did you get internet access above ground?
>>
>> Jeff
>
> "Put up or shut up" is a concept alien to "mike hunt." The only list was
> in his head, anyway.

I am not going to argue you points.

I would like to see the actual lists, though. Not that I don't believe Mike
(aka, "dad"), but, rather, I am curious about how all the cars and trucks
did.

Jeff

From: C. E. White on

"Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:lFJGh.584$3i.371(a)trnddc01...

> I would love to the list of the top selling vehicles in each class. Do you
> have a link to it?

Different people have different ideas of groups -

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023925 is a decent
article

I gleaned the following "tops" for 2006 -

Top selling pickup - Ford F150 (also top selling vehicle)
Top Selling Passenger Car - Toyota Camry
Top Selling SUV - Ford Explorer
Top Selling Mini-van - Dodge Caravan

You could break it down into top selling luxury car, luxury SUV, small car,
etc...but that list would depend on who was doing the defining.

Ed



From: Ed White on
From: "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Toyota Tundra: First Impression


> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:p9HGh.9124$Jl.3538(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute(a)DunderMifflin.com>
wrote in
>> message news:4mcmu29eul3g9otl4kvse3q9v5jnc7qni3(a)4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:29:36 GMT, "C. E. White"
>>> <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> She wouldn't even consider an Escape.
>>>
>>> Are you aware that certain years and models of Ford Escape set new
>>> lows for resale value percentage?
>>
>> And this would make absolutely no difference to her. Her old Camry was
a
>> hard sale at $500. Her old Pymouth van was worth just as much ($500) to
>> the junk yard .
>>
>> And this sounds like a really good reason to purchase a 1 or 2 year old
>> used Escape.
>
> Yeah, except she wanted a new car.

True. Like me, she doesn't want a used car, even a used Toyota. As I
said before, ressale value is irrelevant.

>> I looked at the resale valuses for Escapes. Looks like for the first two
>> years they really take a big hit. This is probably a result of all the
>> incentives Ford has been offering on new Escapes. For most people, the
>> payments on a new Escape would be less than the payements on a 2 or 3
>> year old Escape. This of course drives the resale value down. After the
>> vehicles are more than 3 years old, the RAV4 and Escape resale values are
>> much closer, even though RAV4 buyers paid more for their vehiecles.
>
> Reality check - back then, new Ravs were not as expensive as today.

According to CARS.COM, a 2004 RAV4 Front Wheel Drive Manual
Transmission Base Model had a list price of $18,450 (manual windows,
no A/C). My SO just bought a 2007 Automatic with A/C, power windows,
power locks, upgrade stero and park pilot etc, for 22K (Base price
with an automatic is $20,950). I don't see much difference in the
price. In fact compared to the 2004, the 2007 appears to be a bargin.

>> Escape XLS - 4 cylinder 2WD Automatic Private Party Value, Good
>> Condition, Average Mileage
>>
>> 2001 - 6985
>> 2002 - 8630
>> 2003 - 9005
>> 2004 - 10320
>> 2005 - 11620
>>
>> RAV4 - 4 cylinder, 2WD, Automatic, Private Party Value, Good Condition,
>> Average Mileage
>>
>> 2001 - 8615
>> 2002 - 9025
>> 2003 - 11835
>> 2004 - 14550
>> 2005 - 16315
>
> Reality check - I just looked to see what's offered for sale around here
> in Escapes and Ravs. The median asking price for Escapes is $5,000 less
> than for the Rav ($9K vs $14K).

I was quoting KBB numbers for similarly equipped vehicle with similar
mileage. "Asking" prices are not "getting" prices, but you probably
know that. Anybody that is asking 14K for a RAV4 that is more than 3
years old is living in fantasy land. Anyone who pays that much is not
too bright. I am confident I could buy a new 4 cylinder Escape for
less than $17K. No matter now great you think a RAV4 is, there is no
way a 4 year old RAV4 is better than a new Escape. Only a true Toyota
drone would be that silly.

I did an Autotrader search on 2004 RAV4s and 2004 Escapes. There was
only one 2004 RAV4 listed in my area, the asking price was $18988.
There were 23 2004 Escapes listed with asking prices from 12,950 to
19,900. Cars.com also only had one RAV4 listed in my area (a different
one) and the asking price for it was $18480. Cars.Com listed 12 2004
Escapes with asking prices ranging from $11,995 to $18,995. The local
CARMAX didn't have a 2004 RAV4. They did have three 2004 Escapes -
$14,988 to $16,998. I did an extended CARMAX search and found there
were six 2WD 2004 RAV4s in their network, prices ranged from $15998 to
$18599.

I can't see where there is as great a variation in "asking" prices as
you indicated (at least for a three year old model). Not sure about
"selling" prices. Edmunds.com give a 2004 RAV4 a True Market Value
Private Party price of $12,986. The similar TMV for a base 2004 Escape
is $12,274. Again not much difference.

If you want to check my numbers, use zip code 27609 and a 50 mile
radius.

>>> I didn't think so... <G>
>>
>> I ponited out it is irrelevant to someone who drives a car until it is
>> dirt.
>>
>> Ed
>
> Actually, it's not. Needs change and if you've bought a car that
> depreciates like it was going over a cliff, that limits your options when
> your needs change.

I can't imagine what sort of need would casue my SO to change away
from a RAV4 or Escape. It is not like she bought a Corvette and
suddenly had three kids.

> And superior long-term reliability is *really* important to people who
> drive the car forever. I don't think Ford's there quite yet.

This is where you have to go with what has works for you -

My younger Sister has a 2001 Escape. Total repairs to date - $13.

My Mother and Father owned nothing but Ford products since 1957. In
the last 25 years, I think the total amount they paid on repairs would
be less than $700 and I think most of that would be mufflers on pick-
up trucks. Other than two or three muflers, the only repairs that
come to mind were a power seat on a Grand Marquis (a 7 year old Greand
Marquis and only after my Mother jamed it with an umbrella), and a
water pump on a 1992 Ranger. I have not been quite as lucky with my
Fords, since 1996, I actually had to buy a coil pack, a multifunction
switch, and an alternator (of coruse the Cressida I owned needed three
alternators, a starter, an AC condensor, three relays, a power window
switch, and the transmission was acting up when we dumped it). Now my
SO admittedly drove her old Camry many miles, but after I met her and
before she finally sold the car (around 4 years) she had to have major
engine and transmssion work (hundreds of dollars), multiple mufflers,
a drive shaft, and an alternator. So based on the experiences of
thoseclosest to me, I'd rate Fords far more reliable than Toyotas.
This certainly doesn't prove anything, but then neither do individuals
who have had good luck with Toyotas.

BTW consumers at Edmunds did give the 2004 RAV4 a slightly higher
rating than the 2004 Escape (9.5 vs 8.9). If you look at the 2004
Escape at Consumer Reports, all areas were average to much better
than average, with an overall better than average rating. The RAV4
did get a much better than average rating. Consumer Reports estimated
the retail price of a 2004 RAV4 as $14200 to $18200. They estimated
the retail price of a 2004 Escape as $9800 to $16100.

Ed

From: Mike Hunter on
You are free to believe whatever you choose.


mike


"Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2LGh.771$nU5.277(a)trnddc04...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:RaKdnV9UCNly83bYnZ2dnUVZ_tGlnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>> Depends on how many trucks the dealership sells in a week. If they sell
>> 100 a week they need around a 1000 on hand . If they sell only 10, 80
>> will do. A sixty day supply on the ground is ideal, except at intro in
>> the fall through balance out in the spring, then a ninety day supply is
>> better. Don't for get Ford sells F150s at a rate around six times that of
>> the Tundra and Ford has around twice as many dealerships
>>
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>> "Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:7oJGh.582$3i.42(a)trnddc01...
>>>
>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>> news:efqdnTwdnoQVxnbYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>>> Can't prove it by me, my local Chevy dealer has two dozen Toyotas of
>>>> all types on his lot. Do a search and I believe you will find the
>>>> 2006 Tundra holds the record for on unsold vehicles LOL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>> From these reports, you can see that Toyota is selling its new truck
>>> pretty fast. It has about 4 or 5 weeks supply. That compares to about 15
>>> weeks supply for Fords.
>>>
>>> The big 3 now have the most unsold inventory as well as the how long the
>>> supply will last, i.e., how many days it will take to sell the same
>>> number of vehicles as they have in inventory.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>
> A fifteen-week supply is 2.5 times a six-week supply. Ford has had to shut
> down production to get rid of its supply. Part of the reason is that Ford
> is also decreasing the number of vehicles it sells to rental fleets.
>
> Considering that Ford and GM have a much bigger supply than Toyota, and
> that the supply is far bigger than they want, Ford and GM have too much
> inventory. This has been problematic for the big 3 in the last few years,
> at least.
>
> Jeff


From: Mike Hunter on
Does that mean you realize Fords can and do last a long time and can and do
go up rather than down in value? ;)

mike


"dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message
news:45eb7dcd$0$16335$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com...
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:dYSdna3e7JYc93bYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>> Does that mean your think I should get rid of my 1941 as well as my 1964,
>> 1971, 1972, and 1983 because the will not last very long? Maybe I
>> should sell them. They have from 110K to 300K on the clock and worth at
>> least four to ten times what I paid for them ;)
>>
>> mike
>
> Of course not. The "needs" of a car collector are different. If Ed's
> "SO" buys ONE car and keeps it for a good long time and replaces it with
> ONE car, that's hardly the behavior of a collector.
>
> As in, don't be a jerk.
>
>> "dh" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message
>> news:45eb4841$0$16321$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com...
>>> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Reality check - I just looked to see what's offered for sale around here
>>> in Escapes and Ravs. The median asking price for Escapes is $5,000 less
>>> than for the Rav ($9K vs $14K).
>>>
>>>>> I didn't think so... <G>
>>>>
>>>> I ponited out it is irrelevant to someone who drives a car until it is
>>>> dirt.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Actually, it's not. Needs change and if you've bought a car that
>>> depreciates like it was going over a cliff, that limits your options
>>> when your needs change.
>>>
>>> And superior long-term reliability is *really* important to people who
>>> drive the car forever. I don't think Ford's there quite yet.
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>