Toyota Runaway Cause: Electronic Throttle/Cruise Control?
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From: Mike Hunter on 10 Nov 2009 15:19 The pointer was not connected to the linkage. It was attached by a spring loaded pointer. The leaver was what was connected to the transmission. It was never a problem with the tranny. One should be able to tell what position their tranny is in with their eyes closed. The problem was with the operator who does not have enough sense to apply the parking brake. The first automatics did not even have a park position. The arrangement was neutral, drive, low, reverse. That worked great to rock ones car out of mud and snow. Why in the world would anybody want to trust their expensive vehicle to a small $3 pall in the gear back? When ever I was demonstrating the features of the one of the new car we had sold. I would always ask the buyer that question and remind them to always use the parking brake instead, if for no other reason than to be sure it was WORKING properly, in the event of brake failure. A major problem we have in this country is we allow people, who do not know how to drive, to teach others how to drive ;) "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message news:4af9c04a$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:hdc5c1$rp5$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> I remember that whole era. People were not careful about making sure the >> transmission was in park. Ford sent my parents stickers for the dash to >> remind the driver to put the car securely in park and apply the parking >> brake before exiting the car with the engine running. This was another >> trial lawyer driven frenzy. No one every wants to admit their >> incompetence/stupiditiy was the actual cause of an accident. Much more >> fun to hire a trial lawyer and sue a company with deep pockets. >> >> The only car I ever had "jump out of park" was the POS Cressida we owned. >> And I didn't think it was the cars fault then. But since nobody was >> injured, there was no point in trying to blame Toyota....too bad, I >> suppose if I had run over my foot, I might have been able to sue Toyota >> for big bucks...isn't that the American way?. Interestingly, in the late >> 80's/early 90's the house next to mine at the time had multiple cars >> crash through their side yard. The house across the street was up a >> significant hill from the heighbors house. Three different times they had >> cars roll down their driveway, across the street, and into the neighbors >> side yard. None of the cars were same (a Ford, a Toyota, and a Buick as I >> recall). Evey time the across the street neighboor swore the cars were in >> park. Of course when the cars were pulled out of the neighbors yard, they >> never were (lever near park, key still in the ignition)....so obviously >> they mysteriously jumped out of park. The problems stopped when the >> nighbors up the hill moved (hope they moved to some place flat). >> > I remember that era too. Some of the automatic shift levers were very > poorly designed. In some cased the pointer would break loose and we had > to shift by feel. In other cases the pointer would move with the lever > but point at the wrong gear. Then there were cases where the linkage was > so sloppy we had to bump the lever at one end or the other to get the damn > thing into that gear. I think it was the latter case that led to my > friend's death. FWIW, she was a poor gal, unloading her laundry in front > of a Laundromat. Her two small children watched her die. I suppose her > 70's vintage Ford wasn't maintained very will and she probably set the > brake because it was hard to force it into park. Nobody will ever know > what she was thinking. >
From: E. Meyer on 11 Nov 2009 11:21 On 11/10/09 1:40 PM, in article 4af9c1c6(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: > > "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:C71EF4EC.13797%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >> On 11/9/09 10:28 PM, in article 4af99336$2(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, "Al >> Falfa" >> <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: >> >>> >>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:C71E468E.13782%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/9/09 8:42 PM, in article 4af8d31f$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, "Al >>>> Falfa" >>>> <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:o5ghf55evnloee9me5bh2cpvq04ci88njn(a)4ax.com... >>>>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:50:37 -0600, "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Sharx35" <sharx35(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:md1Km.52154$PH1.8219(a)edtnps82... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:4af876a7$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:C71DA903.1376D%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>>>>>>> Paranoia at the time smeared across all Fords and for a while, all >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>> find in the used car lots were used Fords as people dumped them >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>>>> else. I got a really nice '70 Torino wagon for $150 at the height >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> craziness. Drove it for 6 months until things settled down & sold >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> $500. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A friend of mine was crushed to death while unloading the trunk of >>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>> Ford when it jumped from park into reverse. Then, of course, there >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> the exploding gas tanks on those Chevrolet and GMC pickups. Tort >>>>>>>>> reform. >>>>>>>>> That's the answer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine running >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Parking Brake not engaged? >>>>>>> The parking brake was engaged. >>>>>> >>>>>> If it was the car wouldn't have moved. >>>>>> But anyway, I never knew a driver that would thing twice about opening >>>>>> the trunk with a car running in park. >>>>>> Anybody who says they've never done it is probably lying. >>>>>> Might be some anal types who use a parking break in flatlands. >>>>>> I never do, and often get in the trunk or check trans fluid level with >>>>>> the engine running and the parking brake not set. >>>>>> Just put it in park. >>>>>> Oh, I'm a real daredevil, ain't I? Evic Ksmith I am. >>>>>> Might be more careful with a strange car, and use the e-brake, >>>>>> but maybe not. Park is park. >>>>>> Fords have had a number of these supposed incidents. >>>>>> There was a supervisor who had his legs broken by a Ford sedan in the >>>>>> steel mills where I worked in 1968. >>>>>> I'm not convinced they weren't "user error." >>>>>> Was it ever proved they could slip from park? >>>>>> Has that ever been determine for ANY car? >>>>>> Most likely the cars were left in gear. Many autos can sit still in >>>>>> gear waiting for a slight engine surge to get them rolling. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Vic >>>>> >>>>> Start here: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.autosafety.org/srr/FP-R.pdf >>>>> >>>>> Much of this stuff predates the 'net. My friend was killed in the >>>>> early >>>>> 80s. Ford settled that one. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Most of this also predates auto recalls. Actually, this is the sort of >>>> stuff that led to the recall system. >>>> >>> >>> Take another look at that link. Recalls are mentioned. >>> >> >> I did say "most", not "all". Much of this discussion has been set in the >> '60s & '70s. >> >> I see the word "recall" in the list of stuff at that link. The >> interesting >> title is "Why no Recall", which sort of implies the whole thing was >> groundless. >> > Did you also see "ford faces biggest recall ever' which implies other, > smaller recalls? In fact, latent defects in manufacture have been corrected > since the automobile first hit the road. > Yes, I saw "Ford faces ...". What I didn't see was anything that said they actually had to do it (not to say they didn't, or that they shouldn't have).
From: Steve on 11 Nov 2009 11:44 >> I think one could fall asleep, let his right foot fully accerlate the gas >> pedel, and drive five miles before the auto would reach dangerous levels, >> speed-wise, in a Prius. > > > LOL! Not quite. They're actually pretty quick, because the DC motor > produces all its torque from 0RPM. > > One thing I have wondered.... how would a heavily loaded hybrid with a very small ICE like a Prius do at sustaining speed up a very long, steep grade, especially if you started out at the bottom with the battery pack significantly discharged? I guess the ICE has enough (barely) horsepower all by itself to maintain a minimum safe speed in most cases, but it sure seems like it would be a close thing with a heavy load.
From: Steve on 11 Nov 2009 11:47 >> >> What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine running and >> the Parking Brake not engaged? > The parking brake was engaged. > Not if the car moved, it wasn't. "Engaged" doesn't mean "one click," it means ENGAGED enough to hold. Still operator error.
From: Steve on 11 Nov 2009 11:57
Vic Smith wrote: > > If it was the car wouldn't have moved. > But anyway, I never knew a driver that would thing twice about opening > the trunk with a car running in park. > Anybody who says they've never done it is probably lying. > Might be some anal types who use a parking break in flatlands. > I never do, and often get in the trunk or check trans fluid level with > the engine running and the parking brake not set. > Just put it in park. > Oh, I'm a real daredevil, ain't I? Evic Ksmith I am. > Might be more careful with a strange car, and use the e-brake, > but maybe not. Park is park. Park is park, but Park was NEVER intended to actually hold the car. Especially not back in the early days. Yes, I sometimes use it the "wrong" way too on flat land, and in most cases it DOES hold the car. But it warns ya right there in the owners manual! And if you've ever had a transmission on most any brand open and seen the spring *DESIGNED* to let the detent pop out if too much force is exerted, you'd never trust it with your life (or the car when parking on an incline) either. My first car was a '68 Ford Ranchero, and I knew damn well that it would drop into gear if you looked at it cross-eyed. The shifter detent mechanism was so sloppy that you also had to hold the gear selector in park with your left hand wrapped over the top of the steering column while turning your key with the right hand... took me a while to lose that habit after getting my '73 Plymouth. The really funny thing is that if you watch some old TV shows with Ford cars, you can see the actors doing exactly the same thing to start the car occasionally. It was standard Ford starting procedure in those days. MOST people knew better than to trust the shifter and used their parking brake. |