Toyota Runaway Cause: Electronic Throttle/Cruise Control?
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From: hls on 5 Nov 2009 09:11 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:hcum2j$bn1 > > However, I still say if the guy had moved the shifter into neutral, he > could have stopped the car. But that is jsut my opinion. > > Ed I tried this technique and there is nothing to stop you from flipping the shifter up to neutral. You might over-rev an engine (especially if the electronics have rebelled) but you will be able to slow and stop. The brakes dont stop working if the vacuum is lost...you just have to depend upon your leg muscles. You may THINK you have lost all brakes, but they are still there.
From: Don Stauffer on 5 Nov 2009 10:23 hls wrote: > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:hcum2j$bn1 >> >> However, I still say if the guy had moved the shifter into neutral, he >> could have stopped the car. But that is jsut my opinion. >> >> Ed > > I tried this technique and there is nothing to stop you from flipping > the shifter up to > neutral. You might over-rev an engine (especially if the electronics > have rebelled) > but you will be able to slow and stop. The brakes dont stop working if the > vacuum is lost...you just have to depend upon your leg muscles. You may > THINK > you have lost all brakes, but they are still there. Ah, but some of the Toyotas are shift by wire. That is, there is no physical linkage, merely a switch that sends a signal to the computer. And, keyless ignition. The ON-OFF switch sends the shutdown signal to the computer. I have a Prius, and I'm a bit worried.
From: dsi1 on 5 Nov 2009 10:24 C. E. White wrote: > "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> "The guy was supposedly..."; "Supposedly the car was a Lexus..."; >> "Since it >> was reportedly a rental..." >> >> I feel like I'm reading a court transcript or a CYA newscast. Are >> you guys >> all lawyers? > > No. I just resist stating information as facts known to me when I am > repeating things reported by the press. If you review a bunch of web > sites you can get a pretty good picture of what happened in this one > particualr case. > > http://www.10news.com/news/20831532/detail.html > > That report refers to the car as a loaner, not a rental. It mentions > all weather floor mats as a potential cause. It also implies the 911 > call lasted at a relatively long time. > > http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=6395 > > This one mentions that the car had all weather loor mats that were > longer than the correct ones for the car. > > http://www.ennislaw.com/toyota_floor_mat_recall_news_10262009.html > > This one mentions that the mats in the car were actually mats intended > for a Lexus SUV and that they were not properly secured. My Mom's > Toyota Highlander has two clips that very securely locate the floor > mats. As long as the mats are proplerly installed I can't see haw they > could cause a problem. > > This site also mentions that the car would lose braking power with the > throttle wide open. This is true for any vehicle that uses engine > vacuum to provide brake boost, not just a Lexus or Toyota. The booster > only stores enough enough vaccum for a few stops. An engine at WOT > doesn't provide any additional vacuum. So if your throttle is stuck > wide open, and you repeatedly press on the brakes, you will loose > boost. Supposedly these cars use hydraulic pressure supplied by the power steering pump for braking assist not engine vacuum. Well, that's what I hear anyway. > > However, I still say if the guy had moved the shifter into neutral, he > could have stopped the car. But that is jsut my opinion. Odd, ain't it? > > Ed > >
From: Scott Dorsey on 5 Nov 2009 10:29 In article <P6CIm.3404$gg6.892(a)newsfe25.iad>, dsi1 <dsi1(a)spamnet.com> wrote: >C. E. White wrote: > >Supposedly these cars use hydraulic pressure supplied by the power >steering pump for braking assist not engine vacuum. Well, that's what I >hear anyway. It makes good sense, if the engine isn't going to be running most of the time anyway. The old BMW E28 did something similar. It worked very well, and it included a pressure reservoir that provided considerable braking for a good while after the engine was shut off. It was substantially more complicated than it needed to be and had dozens of seals that all went bad at the same time, mind you. But that has more to do with the implementation than the concept. >> However, I still say if the guy had moved the shifter into neutral, he >> could have stopped the car. But that is jsut my opinion. > >Odd, ain't it? Dunno, I have never driven one of the hybrids. I'm still commuting to work in a car with a manual choke. It's paid for. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: dsi1 on 5 Nov 2009 11:06
Scott Dorsey wrote: > In article <P6CIm.3404$gg6.892(a)newsfe25.iad>, dsi1 <dsi1(a)spamnet.com> wrote: >> C. E. White wrote: >> >> Supposedly these cars use hydraulic pressure supplied by the power >> steering pump for braking assist not engine vacuum. Well, that's what I >> hear anyway. > > It makes good sense, if the engine isn't going to be running most of the > time anyway. > > The old BMW E28 did something similar. It worked very well, and it included > a pressure reservoir that provided considerable braking for a good while after > the engine was shut off. It was substantially more complicated than it needed > to be and had dozens of seals that all went bad at the same time, mind you. > But that has more to do with the implementation than the concept. The advantage of a vac boost system is simplicity. OTOH, there's cars where fitting that big booster thingie just ain't practical. OTOH, even though your old BMW had it, the system still seems high-tech and exotic these days and my guess is that it's a selling point on high-end cars. > >>> However, I still say if the guy had moved the shifter into neutral, he >>> could have stopped the car. But that is jsut my opinion. >> Odd, ain't it? > > Dunno, I have never driven one of the hybrids. I'm still commuting to work > in a car with a manual choke. It's paid for. I sure hope that it's paid off. Those things disappeared with carburettors! The cars I had with chokes were set by pressing the accelerator to the floor once. I had one Brit car with a real dash operated choke - just don't forget to push that sucker back in! :-) > --scott |