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From: Mike Hunter on 8 Jul 2010 16:50
US manufacturers take advantage of foreign products, made in counties that
do not have all the government restrictions or the higher wage we have in
the US, to save money and keep down the cost of their products then most of
the posters in the NG, that also buy stuff from China, Japan, India, Vietnam
or anywhere else they can save a dollar, complain that the companies do the
same they are doing. In a Toyota NG yet, a company that imports most of the
materials and parts used in the cars the only assembles in the US and
imports over half of the vehicles they sell in the US then takes the profits
back to Japan US Corporate tax free. LOL


"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:i15bf8$h6e$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:rpidnYqP8cR2kKvRnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...
>> On 07/08/2010 09:47 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:tqCdnfEap5F2bKjRnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...
>>>> On 07/08/2010 07:56 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>>>>> "Larry Pollard"<lpol(a)gbustmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:t9jb36h6oi7714vtcigsqohtpjv0fq08d5(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> No doubt. Even our legal system encourages payola for "expert
>>>>>> witnesses". There is nothing that prevents or even deters a legal
>>>>>> team from hiring someone with good paper credentials to "find" this
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But is this guy really a good enough writer to do this
>>>>>> professionally?
>>>>>> I doubt it. And also since the audience of Usenet has diminished
>>>>>> greatly over the years, it wouldn't really be an efficient use of
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> or money for someone to pay him to troll here.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to understand Jim Bean. He thinks anyone who doesn't agree
>>>>> with
>>>>> him
>>>>> is either an idiot or a paid shill. He attacks me and claims I am a
>>>>> paid
>>>>> shill because I don't go along with his "party line" regarding the
>>>>> supposed
>>>>> awesome quality of Japanese cars.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The truth is I am just an ordinary citizen
>>>>
>>>> sure you are ed. that's why you blindly and steadfastly regurgitate
>>>> the
>>>> party line, even when it it is blatantly and patently bullshit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> who has owned all sorts of cars
>>>>> from most manufacturers, or at least had close family members that
>>>>> did. I
>>>>> have never believed all the BS about how great Toyota are. I owned one
>>>>> years
>>>>> ago and it was a turd. Others in my family have owned them and
>>>>> currently
>>>>> there are 5 Toyotas in my close family group. All of them have so far
>>>>> been
>>>>> reliable. I particularly like my Mother's Highlander (I should, I
>>>>> recommended it to her) and particularly dislike the 3 RAV4 owned by
>>>>> the
>>>>> group ( POS ergonomics being my main gripe - but the actual owners are
>>>>> very
>>>>> happy). My experience has been that Toyota builds vehicles with
>>>>> quality
>>>>> and
>>>>> longevity comparable to vehicles from other major manufacturers. Some
>>>>> Toyotas are good and some are bad. I do think tht in the past Toyota
>>>>> has
>>>>> routinely misled Customers and worked very hard to cover up
>>>>> significant
>>>>> defects. The sudden acceleration "issue" finally exposed some of these
>>>>> practices. I think it is ironic that this isn't even close to the most
>>>>> blatant customer dis-service issue. On a percentage of vehicles sold,
>>>>> rusted
>>>>> truck frames, defective ball joints, rollover prone 4Runners, and
>>>>> others
>>>>> were all much more significant cases of Toyota quality and design
>>>>> problems
>>>>> but they never generated the sort of firestorm related to the UA
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> And
>>>>> even the origin of the UA firestorm (the match that lit the fire so to
>>>>> speak) was not Toyota's fault in any meaningful way (the Lexus out of
>>>>> control in California). But now that the cat is out of the bag,
>>>>> Toyota
>>>>> is
>>>>> getting the sort of scrutiny that was absent in the past. It is well
>>>>> deserved.
>>>>
>>>> so ed, apart from being full of it, where is your "scrutiny" of your
>>>> employers failing to, ahem, "notice" that the billions of taxpayer
>>>> dollars
>>>> used to keep them afloat are in fact being used to support chinese
>>>> jobs,
>>>> not american? because that's where g.m. gets its componentry. unlike
>>>> toyota that not only assembles its vehicle here, but does so with
>>>> AMERICAN-SOURCED COMPONENTRY.
>>>
>>> My employer is not involved in the car industry (at least not directly -
>>> I
>>> am sure they all buy some of our stuff - including Toyota).
>>
>> "your employer"??? but you masquerade as an ordinary farmer ed! and
>> "not directly involved" means what exactly? you mean the p.r. and
>> lobbying industries don't actually manufacture cars???
>
> I've never claimed to be an "ordinary farmer." If you read older postts I
> think you'll see that I ahve never claimed that I am a full time farmer. I
> own a realtively small (by today's standards) farm in northeastern NC
> (around 350 acres of cropland and pasture). My farm is too small to make a
> decent living given the current depressed commodity prices (my Father
> raised three children on even fewer acres, but that was 25 years ago). So
> I have a "real" job with a corporation. I am fortunate in that I have lots
> of vacation time saved up and my employer provides flexible scheduling.
> Between vacation, weekend, and the occasional 4 day week I am able to keep
> the farm going and still keep my real job.
>
>>> I don't actually
>>> think you believe I am a paid shill. I think you just use that as an
>>> excuse
>>> to justify some of your more ridiculous attacks.
>>
>> don't put false words in my mouth ed - i most definitely do believe
>> you're a paid shill. no rational educated individual could possibly have
>> the bullshit "opinions" you have without some kind of prostitution.
>
> So what BS opinion do I have that is so "out there." Pointing out that
> Toyta's are nothing special is hardly an "extreme" position. Your wacko
> claims seem far more extreem than anything I have said.
>
>
>> > As far as motives are
>>> concerned, it seems to me you have never come clean about yours. You
>>> repeatedly attack GM and praise Toyota. This leads me to believe you
>>> have an
>>> axe to grind with GM and that you feel the need to kiss Toyota's a*&%.
>>
>> wrong. don't put false words in my mouth.
>
> What is wrong with the statement? Don't you repeatedly attack GM? Haven't
> you repeatedly defended Toyota?
>
>>> I can
>>> almost understand the anti-GM stuff, but given your seemingly
>>> pro-American
>>> rhetoric, I don't understand you praise for a foreign owned / foreign
>>> government supported company that has caused the loss of tens of
>>> thousands
>>> of American jobs (some of which they have "graciously" replaced with
>>> lower
>>> paying jobs).
>>
>> dodge and weave. why are you condoning the [mis]use of american
>> taxpayers dollars being used to support jobs in china ed? because you're
>> paid to!
>
> This is an idiot statement. And it is wrong besides. Show me one time I
> have condoned the use of American dollars to support jobs uin China.
>
>>>> oh, wait, am i not supposed to point out the facts??? [rhetorical]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is easy enough to find comparison of domestic content for the various
>>> makes and models of automobiles. I posted links to this sort of
>>> information
>>> many times. Take a look at:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/07/domestic-parts-content-and-automakers.html
>>
>> you've cited that "article" before ed, but it doesn't state its sources.
>> god forbid they should ever make a "mistake" or skew the numbers in any
>> way.
>
> It is what it is. I didn't write and have n reason to think it is any more
> slanted that many other similar studies. They all start out with the same
> data provided to the Government as a result of the American Automobile
> Labeling Act.
>
>>> http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/ci.Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Act+(AALA)+Reports.print
>>
>> you apparently can't read. "country of origin" is carefully defined as
>> country of assembly, not the country from which the components were
>> actually produced. all the componentry i cited is made in china,
>> carefully not included in that list, and automatically redefined by
>> "assembly" here in the u.s.
>
> No, you have not carefully read the rules. Did you even look at the
> reference? here is jsut a small part of the lenghty description from the
> reference:
>
> Vehicle manufacturers must calculate the equipment content percentages for
> their carlines prior to the beginning of the model year. They estimate the
> number of vehicles and subgroups of vehicles that will be built within
> each carline, e.g., the number of base level and high-line models. For
> each carline, the calculation of U.S./Canadian content percentage also
> includes:
> 1. The U.S./Canadian content (by value) of each item of motor vehicle
> equipment that will be used to assemble the vehicles within the carline;
>
> 2. The total value of each equipment item, i.e., the price the
> manufacturer will pay for it (this information is typically provided by
> the manufacturer's suppliers); and
>
> 3. The total number of each of the equipment items that will be used to
> assemble the vehicles within the car line during the model year.
>
> BTW - If you actually go look at the label on the new vehicles they also
> indicate where the engine and transmission were made.
>
>>> As for Toyota not buying parts in China - you are an idiot. The Toyota
>>> brand
>>> floor mats I ordered for my Mother's Highlander came in a Toyota logo
>>> box
>>> with a made in china label.
>>
>> floor mats ed. not engine computers, instruments, brakes, glass, seats,
>> wiring harnesses, drive-shafts, all of which are made in china and used
>> by g.m. none of which are used by toyota in the manufacture of their
>> american vehicles, made with american componentry
>
> You have zero proof that none of the Toyota parts used to assemble cars
> come from China. ZERO. You are just making this up as some sort of defence
> of Toyoya. Toyota has numerous manufacturing plants in China. Toyotya does
> buisness with many Chinese suppliers. Althoguh I can't prove it, since I
> do not have access to COO labels for all the parts in a a Toyota, I feel
> certain that Toyota sources significant numbers of parts in China.
>
>> > Toyota does business in China just like almost
>>> every other company foreign and domestic. We might not like the practice
>>> (I
>>> don't like it either), but singling out GM for buying parts from the
>>> Chinese
>>> is not fair.
>>
>> why do american taxpayers need to support chinese jobs ed? toyota
>> started manufacturing here due to tax pressure. it's utterly ridiculous
>> and completely indefensible to not ensure that american taxpayer bailout
>> dollars given to g.m. have no "must use american components" strings
>> attached.
>
> I am not interested in defending the way the GM bailout was handled. I
> have alawys said that was wrong. GM should have been allowed to go into
> bankruptcy. For political reasons that I opposed, the current
> administration choose to essentially nationlize GM and give a significant
> chunk of it to the UAW. It was wrong. Don't paint me as defending that
> nosense.
>
>>> If you want to attack manufacturers for buying from the
>>> Chinese, attack them all (at least all the ones in the US - I am not
>>> sure
>>> about the European manufacturers).\
>>
>> but i do ed. and if you're "not sure" ed, that's because you're not paid
>> to be "sure".
>
> Where are your attacks on Toyota, Nissan, Honda, etc. They all do buisness
> with China. Don't hold back, go after all of them. I am OK with any legal
> means of reducing our increasing dependence on the Chinese. But I am sure
> you will again defelect attention form the Japanese companies you kiss up
> to and rant about GM again.
>
> Ed
>


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