Throttle bodies interchangeable?
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From: Ray O on 1 Mar 2010 00:10 "Michael" <mrdarrett(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:306c66dd-1b68-4857-9530-4efbf30861d8(a)s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com... On Feb 28, 8:40 am, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote: > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:867fe63b-f0f4-4973-96a1-60c551c02acc(a)t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 27, 9:46 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> > wrote: > > > > > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:568f4623-dca2-4d14-a7b5-9649d5447613(a)z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com... > > > > My wife's '99 Camry (~98k miles) shudders a bit when starting the > > > engine while it's warm. > > > > I'm considering swapping the throttle body (and the IAC valve attached > > > to it) from my '96 Camry (175k miles) to her '99, and putting hers in > > > my car. > > > > Is this a bad idea? Will they even fit? Is the design significantly > > > different? > > > The 1996 V6 was the 3VZ-FE engine, while the 1999 V6 was the 1MZ-FE so > > with > > different engine series, the throttle body almost definitely will not > > fit. > > > The 1996 and 1999 I4 engines were both 5S-FE engine but the 1999 > > produced > > slightly more horsepower and the body style was different so they are > > not > > likely to be interchangeable. > > > Some additional information would be helpful in diagnosing the > > condition, > > and fixing the condition is probably easier than swapping the throttle > > bodies. > > > What do you mean when you say that the engine "shudders a bit" when > > starting > > the engine while it is warm? > > > Is it difficult to start when warm? > > > Does it idle roughly when warm but not when cold? > > Yes that's exactly it. Engine gets about 100 RPM when starting while > warm (never when cold). Sometimes stepping on the gas cures it; more > often lately it stalls and my wife has to re-start the car. Then it's > fine. > > I cleaned by spraying throttle body cleaner and then with motorcycle > chain teflon into the little rectangle in front of the throttle plate > after removing the air intake hose. > > This isn't an IAC problem? I thought the '99 was famous for faulty > IACs, and this is one of the symptoms. > > I'll clean the throttle body/plate when I get a spare moment > > Michael > > **************** > The answers to all of my questions above would help determine whether or > not > the problem is caused by a sticking idle air control "IAC" valve. There > are > other things that can cause the symptoms you are describing, which is why > I > asked all of those questions. Depending on the answers to those questions, > I may have some more. > > How many miles are on the spark plugs, and what kind of spark plugs are > installed, i.e., what brand? Bosch spark plugs installed 30k miles ago. I took a look at the Haynes and it appears that the IAC valve resistance deviates significantly in the '99 vs. the '96. Also it appears that three bolts hold the throttle body in the '99 vs. 4 bolts in the '96. So it appears I cannot simply swap the throttle bodies. Michael ******* While Bosch makes good products, I've run across driveability problems with Bosch ignition products installed in Toyotas. I would give some thought to installing Denso or NGK spark plugs. In the meantime, use carb cleaner to remove all traces of the motorcycle chain lube -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)
From: Michael Dobony on 1 Mar 2010 09:14 On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:43:02 -0600, Ray O wrote: > "Michael Dobony" <survey(a)stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message > news:6hoz1c2mkk4q$.151v1vgmepama$.dlg(a)40tude.net... >> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:19:24 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote: >> >>> "Michael" <mrdarrett(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:568f4623-dca2-4d14-a7b5-9649d5447613(a)z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com... >>>> My wife's '99 Camry (~98k miles) shudders a bit when starting the >>>> engine while it's warm. >>>> >>>> I'm considering swapping the throttle body (and the IAC valve attached >>>> to it) from my '96 Camry (175k miles) to her '99, and putting hers in >>>> my car. >>>> >>>> Is this a bad idea? Will they even fit? Is the design significantly >>>> different? >>> >>> This is one of thoes, "if you gotta ask" questions. >>> >>> When it stutters enough to throw a Check Engine light, then change >>> something. >> >> Both of my vehicles are giving me fits with rough and harsh running, but >> does not give me a check engine light. They both need fixing as soon as I >> can get some funds available. The check engine light finally came on for >> an >> out of spec MAF sensor after months of no power, severe hesitation (having >> to wait for a very big gap in traffic to trust merging without an >> accident), and backfiring. I tried a full tune-up and it did very little >> for the situation. I suspect the used MAF is also out of spec, but not >> enough to trigger a check engine light and I don't have the funds to put >> it >> on a machine to test it. > > It is a good idea to always check a part's operation before replacing it to > avoid unnecessary parts replacement. > > Get some brake cleaner or electronics cleaner and spray a little in the > opening for the MAF sensor, let the liquid drip out, let the part air dry, > and re-install. > > Use carburetor cleaner to clean the inside of the throttle body, throttle > plate, and IAC valve. Already did that. It was bad and changing it out overcame the check engine light and most of the engine problems. The point is that if you have the funds to have it put on diagnostics that is better than waiting almost a year of extremely poor running before the check engine light came on to indicate the problem.
From: Ray O on 1 Mar 2010 12:12 "Michael Dobony" <survey(a)stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message news:t8ww3p2oi18c$.15ny9nrmy87b7$.dlg(a)40tude.net... > On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:43:02 -0600, Ray O wrote: > >> "Michael Dobony" <survey(a)stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message >> news:6hoz1c2mkk4q$.151v1vgmepama$.dlg(a)40tude.net... >>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:19:24 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote: >>> >>>> "Michael" <mrdarrett(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:568f4623-dca2-4d14-a7b5-9649d5447613(a)z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com... >>>>> My wife's '99 Camry (~98k miles) shudders a bit when starting the >>>>> engine while it's warm. >>>>> >>>>> I'm considering swapping the throttle body (and the IAC valve attached >>>>> to it) from my '96 Camry (175k miles) to her '99, and putting hers in >>>>> my car. >>>>> >>>>> Is this a bad idea? Will they even fit? Is the design significantly >>>>> different? >>>> >>>> This is one of thoes, "if you gotta ask" questions. >>>> >>>> When it stutters enough to throw a Check Engine light, then change >>>> something. >>> >>> Both of my vehicles are giving me fits with rough and harsh running, but >>> does not give me a check engine light. They both need fixing as soon as >>> I >>> can get some funds available. The check engine light finally came on for >>> an >>> out of spec MAF sensor after months of no power, severe hesitation >>> (having >>> to wait for a very big gap in traffic to trust merging without an >>> accident), and backfiring. I tried a full tune-up and it did very little >>> for the situation. I suspect the used MAF is also out of spec, but not >>> enough to trigger a check engine light and I don't have the funds to put >>> it >>> on a machine to test it. >> >> It is a good idea to always check a part's operation before replacing it >> to >> avoid unnecessary parts replacement. >> >> Get some brake cleaner or electronics cleaner and spray a little in the >> opening for the MAF sensor, let the liquid drip out, let the part air >> dry, >> and re-install. >> >> Use carburetor cleaner to clean the inside of the throttle body, throttle >> plate, and IAC valve. > > Already did that. It was bad and changing it out overcame the check engine > light and most of the engine problems. The point is that if you have the > funds to have it put on diagnostics that is better than waiting almost a > year of extremely poor running before the check engine light came on to > indicate the problem. Yup, I agree that having the funds to diagnose a problem correctly immediately is better than waiting a long time and putting up with a vehicle that is running poorly. Higher end OBD II scanners will provide real time data from each sensor. Having a trouble code point to a particular sensor does not necessarily mean that the sensor is bad. Just about every part can also be checked with a multi-meter, so with a detailed list of symptoms, a factory repair manual, and a decent multi-meter ($50+), it is possible to check stuff out before a check engine light is illuminated, and after the check engine light is illuminated, to see what the part is actually doing. Of course, depending on which part needs replacement, a free diagnosis is not as beneficial as a free part. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)
From: Michael on 1 Mar 2010 12:39 On Feb 28, 9:10 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote: > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:306c66dd-1b68-4857-9530-4efbf30861d8(a)s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 28, 8:40 am, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> > wrote: > > > > > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:867fe63b-f0f4-4973-96a1-60c551c02acc(a)t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > On Feb 27, 9:46 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> > > wrote: > > > > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > > >news:568f4623-dca2-4d14-a7b5-9649d5447613(a)z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com.... > > > > > My wife's '99 Camry (~98k miles) shudders a bit when starting the > > > > engine while it's warm. > > > > > I'm considering swapping the throttle body (and the IAC valve attached > > > > to it) from my '96 Camry (175k miles) to her '99, and putting hers in > > > > my car. > > > > > Is this a bad idea? Will they even fit? Is the design significantly > > > > different? > > > > The 1996 V6 was the 3VZ-FE engine, while the 1999 V6 was the 1MZ-FE so > > > with > > > different engine series, the throttle body almost definitely will not > > > fit. > > > > The 1996 and 1999 I4 engines were both 5S-FE engine but the 1999 > > > produced > > > slightly more horsepower and the body style was different so they are > > > not > > > likely to be interchangeable. > > > > Some additional information would be helpful in diagnosing the > > > condition, > > > and fixing the condition is probably easier than swapping the throttle > > > bodies. > > > > What do you mean when you say that the engine "shudders a bit" when > > > starting > > > the engine while it is warm? > > > > Is it difficult to start when warm? > > > > Does it idle roughly when warm but not when cold? > > > Yes that's exactly it. Engine gets about 100 RPM when starting while > > warm (never when cold). Sometimes stepping on the gas cures it; more > > often lately it stalls and my wife has to re-start the car. Then it's > > fine. > > > I cleaned by spraying throttle body cleaner and then with motorcycle > > chain teflon into the little rectangle in front of the throttle plate > > after removing the air intake hose. > > > This isn't an IAC problem? I thought the '99 was famous for faulty > > IACs, and this is one of the symptoms. > > > I'll clean the throttle body/plate when I get a spare moment > > > Michael > > > **************** > > The answers to all of my questions above would help determine whether or > > not > > the problem is caused by a sticking idle air control "IAC" valve. There > > are > > other things that can cause the symptoms you are describing, which is why > > I > > asked all of those questions. Depending on the answers to those questions, > > I may have some more. > > > How many miles are on the spark plugs, and what kind of spark plugs are > > installed, i.e., what brand? > > Bosch spark plugs installed 30k miles ago. > > I took a look at the Haynes and it appears that the IAC valve > resistance deviates significantly in the '99 vs. the '96. Also it > appears that three bolts hold the throttle body in the '99 vs. 4 bolts > in the '96. So it appears I cannot simply swap the throttle bodies. > > Michael > > ******* > While Bosch makes good products, I've run across driveability problems with > Bosch ignition products installed in Toyotas. I would give some thought to > installing Denso or NGK spark plugs. > > In the meantime, use carb cleaner to remove all traces of the motorcycle > chain lube > -- > > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Ok, will do. Thanks! Michael Darrett
From: Ray O on 1 Mar 2010 15:38
"Michael" <mrdarrett(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:5e9ad04d-045d-4e9d-a81f-0c82713ab06e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com... On Feb 28, 9:10 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote: > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:306c66dd-1b68-4857-9530-4efbf30861d8(a)s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 28, 8:40 am, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> > wrote: > > > > > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:867fe63b-f0f4-4973-96a1-60c551c02acc(a)t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > On Feb 27, 9:46 pm, "Ray O" <rokig...(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> > > wrote: > > > > "Michael" <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > > >news:568f4623-dca2-4d14-a7b5-9649d5447613(a)z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com... > > > > > My wife's '99 Camry (~98k miles) shudders a bit when starting the > > > > engine while it's warm. > > > > > I'm considering swapping the throttle body (and the IAC valve > > > > attached > > > > to it) from my '96 Camry (175k miles) to her '99, and putting hers > > > > in > > > > my car. > > > > > Is this a bad idea? Will they even fit? Is the design significantly > > > > different? > > > > The 1996 V6 was the 3VZ-FE engine, while the 1999 V6 was the 1MZ-FE so > > > with > > > different engine series, the throttle body almost definitely will not > > > fit. > > > > The 1996 and 1999 I4 engines were both 5S-FE engine but the 1999 > > > produced > > > slightly more horsepower and the body style was different so they are > > > not > > > likely to be interchangeable. > > > > Some additional information would be helpful in diagnosing the > > > condition, > > > and fixing the condition is probably easier than swapping the throttle > > > bodies. > > > > What do you mean when you say that the engine "shudders a bit" when > > > starting > > > the engine while it is warm? > > > > Is it difficult to start when warm? > > > > Does it idle roughly when warm but not when cold? > > > Yes that's exactly it. Engine gets about 100 RPM when starting while > > warm (never when cold). Sometimes stepping on the gas cures it; more > > often lately it stalls and my wife has to re-start the car. Then it's > > fine. > > > I cleaned by spraying throttle body cleaner and then with motorcycle > > chain teflon into the little rectangle in front of the throttle plate > > after removing the air intake hose. > > > This isn't an IAC problem? I thought the '99 was famous for faulty > > IACs, and this is one of the symptoms. > > > I'll clean the throttle body/plate when I get a spare moment > > > Michael > > > **************** > > The answers to all of my questions above would help determine whether or > > not > > the problem is caused by a sticking idle air control "IAC" valve. There > > are > > other things that can cause the symptoms you are describing, which is > > why > > I > > asked all of those questions. Depending on the answers to those > > questions, > > I may have some more. > > > How many miles are on the spark plugs, and what kind of spark plugs are > > installed, i.e., what brand? > > Bosch spark plugs installed 30k miles ago. > > I took a look at the Haynes and it appears that the IAC valve > resistance deviates significantly in the '99 vs. the '96. Also it > appears that three bolts hold the throttle body in the '99 vs. 4 bolts > in the '96. So it appears I cannot simply swap the throttle bodies. > > Michael > > ******* > While Bosch makes good products, I've run across driveability problems > with > Bosch ignition products installed in Toyotas. I would give some thought to > installing Denso or NGK spark plugs. > > In the meantime, use carb cleaner to remove all traces of the motorcycle > chain lube > -- > > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Ok, will do. Thanks! Michael Darrett ******** You're welcome If you still have problems after replacing the MAF sensor (and cleaning the replacement used sensor) and changing the spark plugs to OEM Denso or NGK, report back and we'll work some more on diagnosis and testing. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |