The Drive-a-Toyota Act
in [Toyota]
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From: Jeff on 3 Jul 2007 20:00 Mike Hunter wrote: > Need I say it again? Do you own homework. You have backwards, old man. If you make a claim, you need to back it up. You claimed that batteries need to be replaced too often on Toyota Hybrids, so back your own claim up, if you can. > Seems to me if one lacks > knowledge on a subject they should first do a search to gain some > information on the subject before commenting. Exactly. You just need to take your own advice. > One can learn just about anything they choose if they want. For instance > one can learn about A/C systems or batteries on line by doing a proper > search. ;) Or the meaning of the first digit in the VIN, too. I bet you can if you did your homework. The bottom line is that you if you wish to make a claim, you need to back it up. Jeff > mike > > > > > > > "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:wwyii.3148$fw2.2723(a)trnddc04... >> Mike Hunter wrote: >>> That's may be true but only because most will likely be replaced prior to >>> 100K LOL >> In your opinion. >> >> How about evidence that the battery packs actually need to be replaced >> before 100 k mi? >> >> Jeff >> >>> mike >>> >>> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:6_xii.8244$DM4.138(a)trndny06... >>>> Mike Hunter wrote: >>>>> Really? Retail prices will plummet if it is soon time to buy a battery >>>>> pack fro thousands of dollars LOL >>>> That's true. However, there is very little reason to suspect that owners >>>> will have to replace battery packs in droves at 100k mi. >>>> >>>> So far, there is very little indication that the battery packs will be >>>> problematic. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:468a6590$0$10851 >>>>> >>>>>> I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by >>>>>> upper middle class Americans. They're the ones with the money. Since >>>>>> Prius resale values are holding well, the used Priuses are going to be >>>>>> purchased by upper middle class Americans, too. > >
From: Mike Hunter on 3 Jul 2007 20:10 You said you couldn't have gotten any new Camry for under $15K new. Dealer cost on the cheapest Camry is 16,952, few dealers in the US stock one like that. You either live in a low wage county where they sell Toyotas for less, you had a fairly late model trade, or the car was stolen. Perhaps you meant a Corolla ;) mike "Sean Elkins" <sean_elkins(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:sean_elkins-374177.18064303072007(a)iglou.read.readnews.com... > In article <D5KdnQYsK4dBNhfbnZ2dnUVZ_sCinZ2d(a)ptd.net>, > "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote: > >> Where do you live, China? ;) >> >> mike >> > > Can you explain this question? I don't understand your point. > >> "Sean Elkins" <sean_elkins(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:sean_elkins-C6C6BB.11165703072007(a)iglou.read.readnews.com... >> > In article <INrii.3127$fw2.2179(a)trnddc04>, >> > Jeff <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Sean Elkins wrote: >> >> > In article <elmop-FC1E79.07414103072007(a)nntp1.usenetserver.com>, >> >> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> In article <5eukqtF3a8nrdU2(a)mid.individual.net>, >> >> >> Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado >> >> >>>> that >> >> >>>> costs >> >> >>>> as much as 2 Priuses. >> >> >>> ...because those other vehicles are a better value over their >> >> >>> useful >> >> >>> lives. >> >> >> How so? >> >> > >> >> > I just bought a new Corolla (5-speed) that gets 32-41 mpg and I paid >> >> > $14,400 on the road for it. I couldn't have gotten nearly the same >> >> > discount on a Prius (msrp $22,175)) and at current gas prices the >> >> > Prius >> >> > wouldn't save the equivalent cost in gas to make up the difference >> >> > in >> >> > price over their useful lives. >> >> >> >> But, the cars have different options. A better comparison might have >> >> been comparing a Camry and Prius. >> >> >> >> It is easier to compare the Honda Civic and Honda Civic Hybrid. >> >> >> >> Jeff >> > >> > I wasn't thinking about options, I was thinking about size. A Camry is >> > a >> > bigger car than a Prius, so I don't think that's a valid comparison. >> > >> > More to the point-- I would never consider buying a Camry when I can >> > get >> > a more economical car that serves my needs and gets better mileage. I >> > couldn't have gotten any new Camry for under $15K new.
From: Mike Hunter on 3 Jul 2007 20:19 The bottom line is that you if you wish to make a claim, you need to back it up. You said the batteries will last eight years or 100K. You need to back that up LOL mike "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:AqBii.4058$Of2.1479(a)trnddc06... > Mike Hunter wrote: >> Need I say it again? Do you own homework. > > You have backwards, old man. > > If you make a claim, you need to back it up. > > You claimed that batteries need to be replaced too often on Toyota > Hybrids, so back your own claim up, if you can. > > > Seems to me if one lacks >> knowledge on a subject they should first do a search to gain some >> information on the subject before commenting. > > Exactly. You just need to take your own advice. > >> One can learn just about anything they choose if they want. For instance >> one can learn about A/C systems or batteries on line by doing a proper >> search. ;) > > Or the meaning of the first digit in the VIN, too. > > I bet you can if you did your homework. > > The bottom line is that you if you wish to make a claim, you need to back > it up. > > Jeff > >> mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:wwyii.3148$fw2.2723(a)trnddc04... >>> Mike Hunter wrote: >>>> That's may be true but only because most will likely be replaced prior >>>> to 100K LOL >>> In your opinion. >>> >>> How about evidence that the battery packs actually need to be replaced >>> before 100 k mi? >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:6_xii.8244$DM4.138(a)trndny06... >>>>> Mike Hunter wrote: >>>>>> Really? Retail prices will plummet if it is soon time to buy a >>>>>> battery pack fro thousands of dollars LOL >>>>> That's true. However, there is very little reason to suspect that >>>>> owners will have to replace battery packs in droves at 100k mi. >>>>> >>>>> So far, there is very little indication that the battery packs will be >>>>> problematic. >>>>> >>>>> Jeff >>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:468a6590$0$10851 >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by >>>>>>> upper middle class Americans. They're the ones with the money. >>>>>>> Since Prius resale values are holding well, the used Priuses are >>>>>>> going to be purchased by upper middle class Americans, too. >>
From: dh on 3 Jul 2007 20:51 "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:PqqdnYkC24EWehfbnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d(a)ptd.net... > The bottom line is that you if you wish to make a claim, you need to back > it up. You said the batteries will last eight years or 100K. You need to > back that up LOL > > mike You say that they cars will experience dramatic failure rates at 100K miles. Prove it. IF that were the case, I'd expect to find mention of it here: http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2002/consumerreview.html but I don't. Feel free to check other years. You might also take a look at this: http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2005/08/02/sainsbury-cab/ or this: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=19791 Have a day. > "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:AqBii.4058$Of2.1479(a)trnddc06... >> Mike Hunter wrote: >>> Need I say it again? Do you own homework. >> >> You have backwards, old man. >> >> If you make a claim, you need to back it up. >> >> You claimed that batteries need to be replaced too often on Toyota >> Hybrids, so back your own claim up, if you can. >> >> > Seems to me if one lacks >>> knowledge on a subject they should first do a search to gain some >>> information on the subject before commenting. >> >> Exactly. You just need to take your own advice. >> >>> One can learn just about anything they choose if they want. For >>> instance one can learn about A/C systems or batteries on line by doing a >>> proper search. ;) >> >> Or the meaning of the first digit in the VIN, too. >> >> I bet you can if you did your homework. >> >> The bottom line is that you if you wish to make a claim, you need to back >> it up. >> >> Jeff >> >>> mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:wwyii.3148$fw2.2723(a)trnddc04... >>>> Mike Hunter wrote: >>>>> That's may be true but only because most will likely be replaced prior >>>>> to 100K LOL >>>> In your opinion. >>>> >>>> How about evidence that the battery packs actually need to be replaced >>>> before 100 k mi? >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:6_xii.8244$DM4.138(a)trndny06... >>>>>> Mike Hunter wrote: >>>>>>> Really? Retail prices will plummet if it is soon time to buy a >>>>>>> battery pack fro thousands of dollars LOL >>>>>> That's true. However, there is very little reason to suspect that >>>>>> owners will have to replace battery packs in droves at 100k mi. >>>>>> >>>>>> So far, there is very little indication that the battery packs will >>>>>> be problematic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>>> mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:468a6590$0$10851 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by >>>>>>>> upper middle class Americans. They're the ones with the money. >>>>>>>> Since Prius resale values are holding well, the used Priuses are >>>>>>>> going to be purchased by upper middle class Americans, too. >>> > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: mrv on 3 Jul 2007 21:04
On Jul 3, 4:25 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu...(a)mailcity.com> wrote: > 8 / 100K for defects is material and workmanship, not if it the pack simply > wears out. If you drive more than 12,500 miles a year you should > concerned, since battery, like tire warranties, are prorated on the LIST > price, except for defects. If you want to educate yourself, call a Toyota > dealer and ask the current replacement cost for a new battery pack. I > believe you will discover that if the battery fails in just four years it > will cost you over $4,000 for a replacement ;) The hybrid traction battery is covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles in the US under the Hybrid Vehicle System warranty. If you're in one of the California emissions states the hybrid battery is further covered by the California Emission Control Warranty out to 10 years or 150,000 miles (for a 2004-current Prius, anyways). No pro-rata amount, full replacement. and it doesn't "wear out" - it has a very good battery management system. There have only been a handful of hybrid battery replacements reported online, and of those most were a defect (followed by Toyota just wanting to collect hybrid batteries for real-world test data). Quoting from a June 22, 2004 Toyota press release: http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20040623 http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528 <quote> How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost? The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. .... </quote> To quote from Toyota: http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynergyview/2006/fall/battery.html "'Q: How long do the high-voltage batteries last? GS: We designed them to last for the life of the vehicle. We're aware of owners who have racked up a quarter-million miles without replacing the batteries. Q: What would it cost to replace a complete battery pack? GS: Less than $3000, plus labor. ..... Q: Do they [the hybrid batteries] ever run out of power? GS: No. A computer makes sure the batteries never discharge completely. They never fill completely, either. " IF out of warranty... Why replace the entire battery pack with a new one? Why not just replace the individual bad cells? Why not get a used battery pack from a junkyard (wrecked vehicle)? Most used Prius battery packs tend to sell for <US$1000 (before the $200 bounty that Toyota pays for the old one). New, if you decide to replace the entire battery pack (and not just a bad module), with the casing, ECU, and labor, you're looking at approx. US$5000. The new battery pack alone, well, that price depends on the dealer, but it's in the $3000-$4000 range. Just because a warranty is over, doesn't mean that you have to replace that item. Just because the bumper-to-bumper 3 year/36,000 mile warranty (US) is over, doesn't mean that the bumpers will fall off, or if the 5 year/60,000 mile (US) powertrain warranty is over that the engine will fall out... Taken from: (US) "2001 Toyota Prius Owner's Warranty Information" booklet, Printed in U.S.A 6/00, PN: 00404-02001-PRIUS page 5, "Introduction," "Warranty Coverages at a Glance" Under "New Vehicle Limited Warranty," Hybrid Vehicle System is listed as 96 months/100,000 miles. page 6, "Your Warranties in Detail," "General Warranty Provisions" "Repairs Made at No Charge: Repairs and adjustments covered by these warranties are made at no charge for parts and labor." page 8, "Your Warranties in Detail," "New Vehicle Limited Warranty" "Hybrid Vehicle System Warranty: This warranty covers repairs needed to correct defects in materials or workmanship of the components listed here and supplied by Toyota, subject to the exceptions indicated under "What is not Covered" on pages 10-11: * Battery control module * Hybrid control module * Hybrid vehicle battery pack * Inverter with converter Coverage is for 96 months or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first." pages 10-11, "Your Warranties in Detail," "New Vehicle Limited Warranty" "WHAT IS NOT COVERED This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting directly or indirectly from any of the following: * Fire, accidents or theft * Abuse or negligence * Misuse- for example, racing or overloading * Improper repairs * Alteration or tampering, including installation of non-Genuine Toyota Accessories * Lack of or improper maintenance, including use of fluids other than those specified in the Owner's Manual * Installation of non-Genuine Toyota Parts * Airborne chemicals, tree sap, road debris (including stone chips), rail dust, salt, hail, floods, wind storms, lightning and other environmental conditions * Water contamination This warranty also does not cover the following: TIRES: Tires are covered by a separate warranty provide by the tire manufacturer. See page 25. NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR: Noise, vibration, cosmetic condtions and other deterioration caused by normal wear and tear. MAINTENANCE EXPENSE: Normal maintenance services such as engine tune-ups; replacement of fluids and filters; lubrication; cleaning and polishing; replacement of spark plugs and fuses; and replacement of worn wiper blades, brake pads/linings and clutch linings. VEHICLES WITH ALTERED ODOMETER: Failure of a vehicle on which the odometer has been altered so that the actual vehicle mileage cannot be readily determined. SALVAGE OR TOTAL-LOSS VEHICLES: Any vehicle that has ever been issued a "salvage" title or similar title under any state's law; or has ever been declared a "total loss" or equivalent by a financial institution or insurer, such as by payment for a claim in lieu of repairs because the cost of repairs exceeded the cash value of the vehicle. This exclusion does not apply to the emission control warranties. INCIDENTAL DAMAGES: Incidental or consequential damages associated with a vehicle failure. Such damages include but are not limited to inconvenience; the cost of transportation, telephone calls and lodging; the loss of personal or commercial property; and the loss of pay or revenue." Taken from: (US) "2004 Toyota Prius Owner's Warranty Information" booklet, Printed in U.S.A 7/03, PN: 00505-T2004-PRIUS page 6, "Introduction," "Warranty Coverages at a Glance" Under "New Vehicle Limited Warranty," Hybrid Vehicle System is listed as 96 months/100,000 miles. Under "Emission Control Warranty," "California(*)," the Hybrid Battery Pack is listed as 120 months/150,000 miles. (*) Also applies to Maine, Massachusetts, New York, and Vermont vehicles equipped with a California Certified Emission Control System. Vehicles covered by this warranty are also covered by the Federal Emission Control Warranty. page 7, "Your Warranties in Detail," "General Warranty Provisions" "Repairs Made at No Charge: Repairs and adjustments covered by these warranties are made at no charge for parts and labor." page 9, "Your Warranties in Detail," "New Vehicle Limited Warranty" "Hybrid Vehicle System Warranty: This warranty covers repairs needed to correct defects in materials or workmanship of the components listed here and supplied by Toyota, subject to the exceptions indicated under "What is not Covered" on pages 11-12: * Battery control module * Hybrid control module * Hybrid vehicle battery pack * Inverter with converter Coverage is for 96 months or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first." pages 11-12, "Your Warranties in Detail," "New Vehicle Limited Warranty" "WHAT IS NOT COVERED This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting directly or indirectly from any of the following: * Fire, accidents or theft * Abuse or negligence * Misuse- for example, racing or overloading * Improper repairs * Alteration or tampering, including installation of non-Genuine Toyota Accessories * Lack of or improper maintenance, including use of fluids other than those specified in the Owner's Manual * Installation of non-Genuine Toyota Parts * Airborne chemicals, tree sap, road debris (including stone chips), rail dust, salt, hail, floods, wind storms, lightning and other environmental conditions * Water contamination This warranty also does not cover the following: TIRES: Tires are covered by a separate warranty provide by the tire manufacturer. See page 25. NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR: Noise, vibration, cosmetic condtions and other deterioration caused by normal wear and tear. MAINTENANCE EXPENSE: Normal maintenance services such as: * Engine tune-ups * Replacement of fluids and filters * Lubrication * Cleaning and polishing * Replacement of spark plugs and fuses * Replacement of worn wiper blades, brake pads/linings and clutch linings VEHICLES WITH ALTERED ODOMETER: Failure of a vehicle on which the odometer has been altered so that the actual vehicle mileage cannot be readily determined. SALVAGE OR TOTAL-LOSS VEHICLES: Any vehicle that has ever been issued a "salvage" title or similar title under any state's law; or has ever been declared a "total loss" or equivalent by a financial institution or insurer, such as by payment for a claim in lieu of repairs because the cost of repairs exceeded the cash value of the vehicle. This exclusion does not apply to the emission control warranties. INCIDENTAL DAMAGES: Incidental or consequential damages associated with a vehicle failure. Such damages include but are not limited to inconvenience; the cost of transportation, telephone calls and lodging; the loss of personal or commercial property; and the loss of pay or revenue." page 20, "Your Warranties in Detail," "California Emission Control Warranty" "YOUR WARRANTY RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS .... CARB [California Air Resources Board] regulations require that Toyota must warrant the emission control system on your vehicle for the time periods indicated on this page, provided there has been no abuse, neglect or improper maintenance of your vehicle. .... Where a warrantable condidtion exists, Toyota will repair your vehicle at no cost to you, including diagnosis, parts and labor. MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY COVERAGE .... * Warranty coverage for the hybrid battery pack is 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first." page 21, "Your Warranties in Detail," "California Emission Control Warranty" "WHAT IS NOT COVERED These warranty obligations do not apply to failures or noncompliance caused by: * The use of replacement parts not certified in accordance with aftermarket parts certification regulations. * The use of replacement parts not equivalent in quality or design to original equipment parts. Provisions under the "What is Not Covered" section of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty also apply to this warranty." |