From: Sean Elkins on
In article <D5KdnQYsK4dBNhfbnZ2dnUVZ_sCinZ2d(a)ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote:

> Where do you live, China? ;)
>
> mike
>

Can you explain this question? I don't understand your point.

> "Sean Elkins" <sean_elkins(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:sean_elkins-C6C6BB.11165703072007(a)iglou.read.readnews.com...
> > In article <INrii.3127$fw2.2179(a)trnddc04>,
> > Jeff <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sean Elkins wrote:
> >> > In article <elmop-FC1E79.07414103072007(a)nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
> >> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In article <5eukqtF3a8nrdU2(a)mid.individual.net>,
> >> >> Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>> Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado
> >> >>>> that
> >> >>>> costs
> >> >>>> as much as 2 Priuses.
> >> >>> ...because those other vehicles are a better value over their useful
> >> >>> lives.
> >> >> How so?
> >> >
> >> > I just bought a new Corolla (5-speed) that gets 32-41 mpg and I paid
> >> > $14,400 on the road for it. I couldn't have gotten nearly the same
> >> > discount on a Prius (msrp $22,175)) and at current gas prices the Prius
> >> > wouldn't save the equivalent cost in gas to make up the difference in
> >> > price over their useful lives.
> >>
> >> But, the cars have different options. A better comparison might have
> >> been comparing a Camry and Prius.
> >>
> >> It is easier to compare the Honda Civic and Honda Civic Hybrid.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >
> > I wasn't thinking about options, I was thinking about size. A Camry is a
> > bigger car than a Prius, so I don't think that's a valid comparison.
> >
> > More to the point-- I would never consider buying a Camry when I can get
> > a more economical car that serves my needs and gets better mileage. I
> > couldn't have gotten any new Camry for under $15K new.
From: Mike Hunter on
Need I say it again? Do you own homework. Seems to me if one lacks
knowledge on a subject they should first do a search to gain some
information on the subject before commenting.

One can learn just about anything they choose if they want. For instance
one can learn about A/C systems or batteries on line by doing a proper
search. ;)

mike






"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wwyii.3148$fw2.2723(a)trnddc04...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> That's may be true but only because most will likely be replaced prior to
>> 100K LOL
>
> In your opinion.
>
> How about evidence that the battery packs actually need to be replaced
> before 100 k mi?
>
> Jeff
>
>> mike
>>
>> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6_xii.8244$DM4.138(a)trndny06...
>>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>> Really? Retail prices will plummet if it is soon time to buy a battery
>>>> pack fro thousands of dollars LOL
>>> That's true. However, there is very little reason to suspect that owners
>>> will have to replace battery packs in droves at 100k mi.
>>>
>>> So far, there is very little indication that the battery packs will be
>>> problematic.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:468a6590$0$10851
>>>>
>>>>> I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by
>>>>> upper middle class Americans. They're the ones with the money. Since
>>>>> Prius resale values are holding well, the used Priuses are going to be
>>>>> purchased by upper middle class Americans, too.
>>


From: C. E. White on

"Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:BcmdnVlyiupj5RfbRVn_vgA(a)giganews.com...

>>> Actually a base Camry costs a lot less than a Prius
>
> See above... I listed the various possible permutations. If you get the
> smallest pkg. on a Prius, is it still "a lot" less? (Guess it depends on
> one's def. of "a lot".) Personally, if one doesn't need the space, I've
> never seen the advantage of buying a base Camry over a loaded Corolla LE.

A bottom price Camry is around 17k. A bottom price Prius is oover 20k.

>> and is a much roomier
>
> No, a Camry's not much roomier. Have you been inside a Prius? It's
> plenty roomy. From the outside it looks small, but the design is such
> that the interior is good-sized.

True, at least on paper. Per EPA interior room rating:

Prius
Passenger Volume - 96 cubic feet
Luggage Volume - 16 cubic feet
4 passengers

Camry
Passenger Volume - 101 cubic feet
Luggage Volume - 15 cubic feet
5 passengers

From Consumer Reports:

Prius
Front shoulder room, in. 55.0
Front leg room, in. 40.5
Front head room, in. 4.0
Rear shoulder room, in. 52.5
Rear fore-aft room, in. 30.0
Rear head room, in. 2.0
Luggage capacity 3+1
Max. load, lb. 825

Camry
Front shoulder room, in. 57.0
Front leg room, in. 42.0
Front head room, in. 3.0
Rear shoulder room, in. 56.0
Rear fore-aft room, in. 29.0
Rear head room, in. 3.0
Luggage capacity 2+2
Max. load, lb. 900

Despite the specs, I find the Prius tight. It seems like a narrow, coffin
like space with poor headroom, and no rear view.

>>> car with better performance (and decent fuel economy too). If you are
>>> talking strictly economics, a Corolla is a much better buy. If you are
>>> trying to impress your neighbors with your "green-ness" then the Prius
>>> is the way to go.
>>
>> Or, if you care about the possibility of global warming, our balance of
>> trade and funding terrorists, the Prius is the way to go.

A Prius is a Japanese manufacturers car - so if you buy a Prius you are
starting out 15K in the hole as far as a balance of trade is concerned.

>> You have no evidence, whatever, to support the notion that people buy a
>> Prius to impress their neighbors. The people I know who bought a Prius
>> bought it for various reasons, primarily fuel economy

Well buying one for fuel economy may be the stated reason, but do you really
think this can be economically justified?

> Pus even lower emissions than my present ('04) Corolla.

Good. But how about cradle to grave affect on the enviroment? Don't you
wonder about the enviromental costs of the batteries? As for buying a Prius
to save money on gas - how many miles do you have to drive to make up the
$3K+ higher cost?

> and their conviction
>> that gas prices would probably rise dramatically over the course of time
>> and the vehicle would be cost effective.
>
> Depends upon how much gas prices rise &/or how long they stay up around
> $3/gallon, how many miles a person drives each year, etc. But then
> there's also the happiness factor.
>
>> They're happy with them.

Good.

> I know 2 people with a Prius. One's a veterinarian & the other is a
> retired classroom aide. I talked with the latter about her car, she
> *loves* it.

Most people who buy new cars love them. I find that the less rational the
purchase, the more owners love it. I know several Prius owners. They all
love them. My Son loves his Mustang. My Sister loves her 10 year old Civic.

>> The fact that the unique-looking Prius sells well compared to the
>> ordinary-looking <pick a hybrid> is sometimes cited as "lookitme"
>> green-ness but that assertion overlooks the fact that the Prius
>> absolutely gets better fuel economy than any other gas-powered car
>> available (its unique shape offers about the lowest Cx on the road) and
>> delivers 4 comfortable seats doing it. So, the evidence that it's
>> "lookitme" green-ness is also evidence that people buying it care about
>> fuel economy.
>
> Plus IMO, it's just... cute. And is a hatchback, which can be very
> convenient.

A station wagon would be even more convient. The Prius has relatively
limited luggage room for a hatch back. I bet you I can put more in the rear
of a Fusion. Cute is in the eye of the beholder. I at least find the Prius
interesting looking. Not ugly, more unique. I think the looks will age well.

>>> I don't agree with the Wall Street Journal on this, but I think if you
>>> check the demographics of who is buying Priuses (?), you will find that
>>> they are overwhelmingly purchased by upper middle class Americans.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>> I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by upper
>> middle class Americans.
>
> How about plain ol' middle class Americans? I teach, so I've obviously
> never been upper middle class. Yet have always bought my cars new, even
> when in my 20's & making a very definitely low salary. I just buy
> judiciously.
>
> They're the ones with the money. Since Prius
>> resale values are holding well,
>
> Extremely well, acc. to the April car issue of CR (which IIRC, C.E. White
> has little regard for; oh, well...) This, coupled with the rising gas
> prices, are making me lean even more towards a Prius the next time around
> for a new car.

I think the Prius is a very interesting car. But economically it is an
irrational purchase. But so are lots of other car purchases. It is even more
irrational to pay a lot for a used Prius. Sooner or later the battery pack
will need to be replaced. Do you want to be holding the bag when this
happens? If your goal is minmal operating cost, then a 2 year old Focus is a
much better idea than a used Prius. Since you truct CR, they give the Focus
exactly the same level of recommendation as the Prius, and a used Focus can
be picked up for a fraction of the cost of a used Prius.

Ed


From: Mike Hunter on
Who was it said you can lead a horse to water............? ;)

mike

"Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:VbednYK0ULpPIRfbRVn_vgA(a)giganews.com...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:K8ednfcgJtEiLRfbnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>8 / 100K for defects is material and workmanship, not if it the pack
>>simply wears out. If you drive more than 12,500 miles a year you should
>>concerned, since battery, like tire warranties, are prorated on the LIST
>>price, except for defects. If you want to educate yourself, call a Toyota
>>dealer and ask the current replacement cost for a new battery pack. I
>>believe you will discover that if the battery fails in just four years it
>>will cost you over $4,000 for a replacement ;)
>>
>> mike
>
> Keep trying; so far it isn't working...
>
> Cathy
>
>>
>>
>> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:79adncOhQtHlNBfbRVn_vgA(a)giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hZ6dnUq2Y7nyOxfbnZ2dnUVZ_t6qnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>>> Or the morons that pay $6,000 more, for a similar size car like a
>>>> Corolla, to save a relative few hundred dollars a year on fuel, then
>>>> need to spend a small fortune at some point to replace the battery pack
>>>> so they can sell or trade the Pruis. ;)
>>>
>>> I just checked the Toyota's site: the hybrid battery's warranty is for I
>>> tend to keep my cars a while, & the longest I've ever kept one has been
>>> 8 years, the shortest was 4, and usually it's 6 years. I personally
>>> wouldn't even begin to factor in the possible eventual cost of a new
>>> battery when deciding on purchasing a hybrid.
>>>
>>> Cathy
>>>
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> "Joe" <Joe(a)dontspam.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:phjii.277$w43.267(a)newsfe04.lga...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net...
>>>>>> Wall Street Journal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's
>>>>>> Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American
>>>>>> factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to
>>>>>> pay
>>>>>> a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global
>>>>>> warming."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> complete article: http://curio.us/8h
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, that's bad, considering the Prius is a very cheap car. They
>>>>> should look at facts in these cases, that way everybody doesn't think
>>>>> morons are writing for the wall street journal..
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado that
>>>>> costs as much as 2 Priuses.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


From: Mike Hunter on
A long time? What does YOUR warranty manual say about frequency of service?
Mine say 7,500 miles or six moths, WOF ;)


mike



"DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message
news:468ab869$1$15142$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com...
> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:VbednYK0ULpPIRfbRVn_vgA(a)giganews.com...
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:K8ednfcgJtEiLRfbnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>>8 / 100K for defects is material and workmanship, not if it the pack
>>>simply wears out. If you drive more than 12,500 miles a year you should
>>>concerned, since battery, like tire warranties, are prorated on the LIST
>>>price, except for defects. If you want to educate yourself, call a
>>>Toyota dealer and ask the current replacement cost for a new battery
>>>pack. I believe you will discover that if the battery fails in just four
>>>years it will cost you over $4,000 for a replacement ;)
>>>
>>> mike
>>
>> Keep trying; so far it isn't working...
>>
>> Cathy
>
> I actually asked the local Toyota parts guy about this some months ago;
> they hadn't had to replace any batteries, yet, from even the original
> Priuses (they sold quite a few).
>
> I'll ask again, for an update on battery replacement, the next time I'm in
> for service. Of course, that could be a good, long time out in the
> future. :-)
>
>
>>> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>> news:79adncOhQtHlNBfbRVn_vgA(a)giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hZ6dnUq2Y7nyOxfbnZ2dnUVZ_t6qnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>>>> Or the morons that pay $6,000 more, for a similar size car like a
>>>>> Corolla, to save a relative few hundred dollars a year on fuel, then
>>>>> need to spend a small fortune at some point to replace the battery
>>>>> pack so they can sell or trade the Pruis. ;)
>>>>
>>>> I just checked the Toyota's site: the hybrid battery's warranty is for
>>>> I tend to keep my cars a while, & the longest I've ever kept one has
>>>> been 8 years, the shortest was 4, and usually it's 6 years. I
>>>> personally wouldn't even begin to factor in the possible eventual cost
>>>> of a new battery when deciding on purchasing a hybrid.
>>>>
>>>> Cathy
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>> "Joe" <Joe(a)dontspam.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:phjii.277$w43.267(a)newsfe04.lga...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net...
>>>>>>> Wall Street Journal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's
>>>>>>> Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American
>>>>>>> factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to
>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>> a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global
>>>>>>> warming."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> complete article: http://curio.us/8h
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, that's bad, considering the Prius is a very cheap car. They
>>>>>> should look at facts in these cases, that way everybody doesn't think
>>>>>> morons are writing for the wall street journal..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado that
>>>>>> costs as much as 2 Priuses.
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>