The Drive-a-Toyota Act
in [Toyota]
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From: Bill Putney on 6 Jul 2007 06:28 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > In article <5f5kleF3as08gU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote: > > >>>You have stated opinions, not facts. >> >>Yes - opinions of fellow experts. > > > Great! Can you point to references? Web sites, books, articles? > > If you can't, or if you won't...well, leave that as an exercise for the > reader to determine the validity of your statements. Here's one that I have found to be more in depth than a lot of others - gets more into the nitty gritty of charging and discharging - this page is one of three parts: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-11.htm I like this one: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-11.htm because for years, the manufacturers have been saying on their packaging (probably still do) that NiMH batteries do not have a memory effect, which I knew to be a false claim. It's appalling how many supposedly techincal and "expert" sites on battery technology have swallowed the "no memory" lie about NiMH. The chemical mechansim for the memory effect in NiMH is totally different in NiCad's, and it is certainly a much smaller phenomenon in the NiMH's, but it is a stretch to say that NiMH has no memory effect. www.thomasdistriuting has some good technical info. on batteries and their proper charging, but as a rep. for a manufacturer, they do tend to leave out certain facts in a marketing kind of way. IIRC, they say that NiMH do not have memory effect even though they say they have to be periodically "reconditioned" (which is contradictory to claim both - if they did not have memory effect, they would not need to be reconditioned), but other than that they are a good company to deal with (great source for digicam batteries and chargers - their chargers are designed to *properly* charge and condition the batteries unlike a lot of other consumer small battery chargers). Well constucted Google searches will come up with those and many more sources of info. on batteries - some of them even have accurate information. :) Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
From: Bill Putney on 6 Jul 2007 06:31 Jeff wrote: > Cars can also have electrically powered water pumps, power steering > pumps, valves, and compressors for the air conditioners, although I > don't know if any do, yet. An honest question: All those things suck energy whether mechanically or electricaly powered (and the power has to ultimately come from the IC engine). For each one, is the electrical version inherently more efficient than a mechanically powered (belt or gear driven) one? Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
From: Jeff on 6 Jul 2007 07:45 Bill Putney wrote: > Jeff wrote: > >> Cars can also have electrically powered water pumps, power steering >> pumps, valves, and compressors for the air conditioners, although I >> don't know if any do, yet. > > An honest question: All those things suck energy whether mechanically or > electricaly powered (and the power has to ultimately come from the IC > engine). For each one, is the electrical version inherently more > efficient than a mechanically powered (belt or gear driven) one? I think the electrically powered ones of these are usually more efficient, because they can be more efficiently shot off (even if you shut off the A/C, there still is loss from friction in the pulleys) and they operate at the proper speed (the A/C compressor in my car would run a lot fast if I drive in 3rd gear on the highway instead of 5th). Plus, I think the generating mechanism on a hybrid means less wasted energy. Jeff > Bill Putney > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x')
From: DH on 6 Jul 2007 08:47 "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:aXpji.56139$Of2.133(a)trnddc06... > Bill Putney wrote: >> Jeff wrote: >>> Cars can also have electrically powered water pumps, power steering >>> pumps, valves, and compressors for the air conditioners, although I >>> don't know if any do, yet. >> >> An honest question: All those things suck energy whether mechanically or >> electricaly powered (and the power has to ultimately come from the IC >> engine). For each one, is the electrical version inherently more >> efficient than a mechanically powered (belt or gear driven) one? > > I think the electrically powered ones of these are usually more efficient, > because they can be more efficiently shot off (even if you shut off the > A/C, there still is loss from friction in the pulleys) and they operate at > the proper speed (the A/C compressor in my car would run a lot fast if I > drive in 3rd gear on the highway instead of 5th). > > Plus, I think the generating mechanism on a hybrid means less wasted > energy. > > Jeff Also consider the packaging advantage of electrical accessories. You are no longer required to put the power steering pump and a/c compressor (and whatever else) where they can be reached by a belt. Put them wherever there's room and run a couple of wires to them. Some of the weight of the added electrical components will be offset by the loss of weight of pulleys and belts (and, maybe, mounting brackets, etc). I wonder, though, if it's better to mechanically link the water pump to the gas engine; run it off the timing belt or chain, as it is in my current Rav engine. When you consider that the hot water might be used for heating the interior of the car... In the Ford Escape Hybrid, setting the A/C to max keeps the engine running all the time, so I believe Ford decided to continue to run the A/C off belts. Perhaps they decided to keep the hybrid as similar to the regular Escape as possible to speed development and reduce overall part count in the product line but this does cost it some fuel economy in the real world in the summer. The Prius, having no conventional origin, would not face that sort of decision in development. I'm not being critical of Ford for this decision, it's just a tradeoff to note and I still admire them for getting a real hybrid to market. >> Bill Putney >> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my >> address with the letter 'x') -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Jeff on 6 Jul 2007 10:06
DH wrote: > "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:aXpji.56139$Of2.133(a)trnddc06... >> Bill Putney wrote: >>> Jeff wrote: >>>> Cars can also have electrically powered water pumps, power steering >>>> pumps, valves, and compressors for the air conditioners, although I >>>> don't know if any do, yet. >>> An honest question: All those things suck energy whether mechanically or >>> electricaly powered (and the power has to ultimately come from the IC >>> engine). For each one, is the electrical version inherently more >>> efficient than a mechanically powered (belt or gear driven) one? >> I think the electrically powered ones of these are usually more efficient, >> because they can be more efficiently shot off (even if you shut off the >> A/C, there still is loss from friction in the pulleys) and they operate at >> the proper speed (the A/C compressor in my car would run a lot fast if I >> drive in 3rd gear on the highway instead of 5th). >> >> Plus, I think the generating mechanism on a hybrid means less wasted >> energy. >> >> Jeff > > Also consider the packaging advantage of electrical accessories. You are no > longer required to put the power steering pump and a/c compressor (and > whatever else) where they can be reached by a belt. Put them wherever > there's room and run a couple of wires to them. Some of the weight of the > added electrical components will be offset by the loss of weight of pulleys > and belts (and, maybe, mounting brackets, etc). > > I wonder, though, if it's better to mechanically link the water pump to the > gas engine; run it off the timing belt or chain, as it is in my current Rav > engine. When you consider that the hot water might be used for heating the > interior of the car... > > In the Ford Escape Hybrid, setting the A/C to max keeps the engine running > all the time, so I believe Ford decided to continue to run the A/C off > belts. Perhaps they decided to keep the hybrid as similar to the regular > Escape as possible to speed development and reduce overall part count in the > product line but this does cost it some fuel economy in the real world in > the summer. The Prius, having no conventional origin, would not face that > sort of decision in development. I'm not being critical of Ford for this > decision, it's just a tradeoff to note and I still admire them for getting a > real hybrid to market. Simplicity in design and reusing old components that work well is a good thing. GM was developing a transmission with a generator/motor in it. Add some electronics and a battery pack, and you've got a hybrid module that you can put into any car or truck. <http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060208/FREE/60206009/1041> Jeff >>> Bill Putney >>> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my >>> address with the letter 'x') > > > |