The Drive-a-Toyota Act
in [Toyota]
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From: Sean Elkins on 3 Jul 2007 11:16 In article <INrii.3127$fw2.2179(a)trnddc04>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Sean Elkins wrote: > > In article <elmop-FC1E79.07414103072007(a)nntp1.usenetserver.com>, > > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote: > > > >> In article <5eukqtF3a8nrdU2(a)mid.individual.net>, > >> Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote: > >> > >>>> Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado that > >>>> costs > >>>> as much as 2 Priuses. > >>> ...because those other vehicles are a better value over their useful > >>> lives. > >> How so? > > > > I just bought a new Corolla (5-speed) that gets 32-41 mpg and I paid > > $14,400 on the road for it. I couldn't have gotten nearly the same > > discount on a Prius (msrp $22,175)) and at current gas prices the Prius > > wouldn't save the equivalent cost in gas to make up the difference in > > price over their useful lives. > > But, the cars have different options. A better comparison might have > been comparing a Camry and Prius. > > It is easier to compare the Honda Civic and Honda Civic Hybrid. > > Jeff I wasn't thinking about options, I was thinking about size. A Camry is a bigger car than a Prius, so I don't think that's a valid comparison. More to the point-- I would never consider buying a Camry when I can get a more economical car that serves my needs and gets better mileage. I couldn't have gotten any new Camry for under $15K new.
From: DH on 3 Jul 2007 11:09 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message news:468a2e89$1(a)kcnews01... > "Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:eridnfIugMILWBTbRVn_vw(a)giganews.com... >> "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message >> news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net... >>> Wall Street Journal >>> >>> "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's >>> Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American >>> factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to pay >>> a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global warming." >> >> The Camry is the best selling car in the U.S., right? Yet it costs a >> little less, as much as, or more than a Prius, depending on the pkg. the >> Prius comes with, & the model of the Camry. So... IMO, that theory sort >> of goes down the drain... >> >> Cathy > > Actually a base Camry costs a lot less than a Prius and is a much roomier > car with better performance (and decent fuel economy too). If you are > talking strictly economics, a Corolla is a much better buy. If you are > trying to impress your neighbors with your "green-ness" then the Prius is > the way to go. Or, if you care about the possibility of global warming, our balance of trade and funding terrorists, the Prius is the way to go. You have no evidence, whatever, to support the notion that people buy a Prius to impress their neighbors. The people I know who bought a Prius bought it for various reasons, primarily fuel economy and their conviction that gas prices would probably rise dramatically over the course of time and the vehicle would be cost effective. They're happy with them. The fact that the unique-looking Prius sells well compared to the ordinary-looking <pick a hybrid> is sometimes cited as "lookitme" green-ness but that assertion overlooks the fact that the Prius absolutely gets better fuel economy than any other gas-powered car available (its unique shape offers about the lowest Cx on the road) and delivers 4 comfortable seats doing it. So, the evidence that it's "lookitme" green-ness is also evidence that people buying it care about fuel economy. > I don't agree with the Wall Street Journal on this, but I think if you > check the demographics of who is buying Priuses (?), you will find that > they are overwhelmingly purchased by upper middle class Americans. > > Ed I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by upper middle class Americans. They're the ones with the money. Since Prius resale values are holding well, the used Priuses are going to be purchased by upper middle class Americans, too. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Cathy F. on 3 Jul 2007 12:27 "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:468a6590$0$10851$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message > news:468a2e89$1(a)kcnews01... >> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr(a)adelphia.net> wrote in message >> news:eridnfIugMILWBTbRVn_vw(a)giganews.com... >>> "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message >>> news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net... >>>> Wall Street Journal >>>> >>>> "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's >>>> Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American >>>> factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to pay >>>> a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global >>>> warming." >>> >>> The Camry is the best selling car in the U.S., right? Yet it costs a >>> little less, as much as, or more than a Prius, depending on the pkg. the >>> Prius comes with, & the model of the Camry. So... IMO, that theory sort >>> of goes down the drain... >>> >>> Cathy >> >> Actually a base Camry costs a lot less than a Prius See above... I listed the various possible permutations. If you get the smallest pkg. on a Prius, is it still "a lot" less? (Guess it depends on one's def. of "a lot".) Personally, if one doesn't need the space, I've never seen the advantage of buying a base Camry over a loaded Corolla LE. > and is a much roomier No, a Camry's not much roomier. Have you been inside a Prius? It's plenty roomy. From the outside it looks small, but the design is such that the interior is good-sized. >> car with better performance (and decent fuel economy too). If you are >> talking strictly economics, a Corolla is a much better buy. If you are >> trying to impress your neighbors with your "green-ness" then the Prius is >> the way to go. > > Or, if you care about the possibility of global warming, our balance of > trade and funding terrorists, the Prius is the way to go. > > You have no evidence, whatever, to support the notion that people buy a > Prius to impress their neighbors. The people I know who bought a Prius > bought it for various reasons, primarily fuel economy Pus even lower emissions than my present ('04) Corolla. and their conviction > that gas prices would probably rise dramatically over the course of time > and the vehicle would be cost effective. Depends upon how much gas prices rise &/or how long they stay up around $3/gallon, how many miles a person drives each year, etc. But then there's also the happiness factor. > They're happy with them. I know 2 people with a Prius. One's a veterinarian & the other is a retired classroom aide. I talked with the latter about her car, she *loves* it. > The fact that the unique-looking Prius sells well compared to the > ordinary-looking <pick a hybrid> is sometimes cited as "lookitme" > green-ness but that assertion overlooks the fact that the Prius absolutely > gets better fuel economy than any other gas-powered car available (its > unique shape offers about the lowest Cx on the road) and delivers 4 > comfortable seats doing it. So, the evidence that it's "lookitme" > green-ness is also evidence that people buying it care about fuel economy. Plus IMO, it's just... cute. And is a hatchback, which can be very convenient. >> I don't agree with the Wall Street Journal on this, but I think if you >> check the demographics of who is buying Priuses (?), you will find that >> they are overwhelmingly purchased by upper middle class Americans. >> >> Ed > > I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by upper > middle class Americans. How about plain ol' middle class Americans? I teach, so I've obviously never been upper middle class. Yet have always bought my cars new, even when in my 20's & making a very definitely low salary. I just buy judiciously. They're the ones with the money. Since Prius > resale values are holding well, Extremely well, acc. to the April car issue of CR (which IIRC, C.E. White has little regard for; oh, well...) This, coupled with the rising gas prices, are making me lean even more towards a Prius the next time around for a new car. Cathy the used Priuses are going to be purchased > by upper middle class Americans, too. > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >
From: Mike Hunter on 3 Jul 2007 15:35 Giving the tax money, paid by one American worker to another, to be passed on to a foreign corporation that does not pay US corporate income taxes, is a bit hard for some of our elected leaders to swallow. mike "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:4689491c$0$16302$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... > "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message > news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net... >> Wall Street Journal >> >> "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's >> Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American >> factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to pay >> a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global warming." >> >> complete article: http://curio.us/8h > > As if the WSJ cares about the men and women who work in American > factories... ROTFLOL > > By the way, cutting fuel consumption: > > - Helps hold back increases in global CO2 levels and, probably, helps > check global warming. > - Improves our balance of trade (since much of our oil is imported). > - Reduces funds available to terrorists and dictators. >
From: Mike Hunter on 3 Jul 2007 15:41
Or the morons that pay $6,000 more, for a similar size car like a Corolla, to save a relative few hundred dollars a year on fuel, then need to spend a small fortune at some point to replace the battery pack so they can sell or trade the Pruis. ;) mike "Joe" <Joe(a)dontspam.net> wrote in message news:phjii.277$w43.267(a)newsfe04.lga... > > "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message > news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net... >> Wall Street Journal >> >> "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's >> Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American >> factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to pay >> a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global warming." >> >> complete article: http://curio.us/8h > > Yeah, that's bad, considering the Prius is a very cheap car. They should > look at facts in these cases, that way everybody doesn't think morons are > writing for the wall street journal.. > > Most of the people I know drive something like a Chevy Silverado that > costs as much as 2 Priuses. > |