From: B.B. on 5 Jul 2007 11:54
In article <elmop-71F22F.23254204072007(a)nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> In article <_mZii.3427$bO2.2057(a)trnddc05>,
> Jeff <kidsdoc2000(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> > And the
> > batteries, according to the testing by Toyota, should be good for the
> > life of the car.
> I hate hearing statements like that.
> What that tells me is that Toyota says that when the batteries go out,
> by definition you've reached the end of life of the car.
> That does NOT tell me that the batteries last a long time.
Hmm, sounds like an iPod.
Does anyone know how Toyota defines "life of the car"?
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
From: B A R R Y on 5 Jul 2007 12:09
Ray O wrote:
Facts have NO place on this newsgroup! <G>
From: mrv on 5 Jul 2007 13:08
On Jul 5, 11:48 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...(a)snet.net> wrote in message
> > "Jeff" <kidsdoc2...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> All indications are that the batteries do not wear out.
> > Sure.
> > "Life of the car" for my use is 15 years and 200,000 miles. When they
> > prove that, I'll buy one.
> This probably does not count as "proof," but here is some information on
> Prius battery life.
> Here is a story about a Prius in taxi service with over 200,000 miles:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8839690/
Andrew Grant's Vancouver taxi was the first taxi at over 322,000km
(200,000+ miles), and it was pulled from service because Toyota wanted
to study it. His record has since been surpassed by one in Victoria
at 410,000km (250,000+ miles).
There are many members of the toyota-prius yahoogroup that are over
200,000 miles now, as well.
> According to this page on Toyota's web site, Toyota has not sold a single
> battery pack replacement due to wear and tear since the Prius went on sale
> in 2000:http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/technology/2004/hybrid.html
The Prius' battery pack is never allowed to fully charge or discharge,
so no cycling (unlike the batteries in most consumer goods). When
more electricity is needed, the gasoline engine comes on to either
assist the electric motor (or take over for it) or to generate the
The displayed charge on the battery (seen on the Prius' Energy Monitor
screen) rarely ever reaches "full" or "empty" but prefers to stay at a
happy medium. But the display only shows you the useable area of
charge on the hybrid battery, displayed "empty" is about 40% and
displayed "full" is about 80%. Actual charge levels can be seen at:
Again, quoting from Toyota:
Q: Do they ever run out of power?
GS: No. A computer makes sure the batteries never discharge
completely. They never fill completely, either.
Q: Do the high-voltage batteries ever need to be checked or serviced
by the owner or by a dealer?
GS: No, there is no scheduled maintenance for the batteries.
Q: How long do the high-voltage batteries last?
GS: We designed them to last for the life of the vehicle. We're aware
of owners who have racked up a quarter-million miles without replacing
Q: What would it cost to replace a complete battery pack?
GS: Less than $3000, plus labor.
Q: How long is the warranty?
GS: The high-voltage batteries are warranted for eight years or
100,000 miles, and under California regulations the battery warranty
extends to 10 years or 150,000 miles.
and from June 2004:
How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement
The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been
designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the
battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never
fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty
easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles
with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle.
We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-
generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more
specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between
the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we
expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may
be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale
in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.
although I'll note that the average miles traveled per passenger car
in the US in 2005 was 12,375miles (http://www.bts.gov/publications/
table_automobile_profile.html ) , and the median age of automobiles in
operation in the US in 2005 was 9 years (http://www.bts.gov/
(again, remember that the warranty is 8 years/100,000 miles on the
hybrid vehicle system (including the hybrid battery pack), and in CA
emission states the hybrid battery on the 2004-current Prius is
further covered out to 10 years/150,000 miles.)
http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/hev/end_of_life_test_1.pdf (fuel economy and
battery capacity testing once 160,000 miles are reached on a Classic
NHW11 Prius, GenI HCH, Insight)
http://avt.inl.gov/hev.shtml (HEV testing in general)
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regs/title13/2112.pdf (California Code of
Regulations, title 13, requiring vehicles to have a useful life of
(depending on passenger vehicle) 5 years/50,000 miles (whichever
occurs first), or 7 years/75,000 miles, 10 years/120,000 miles, or 10
years/150,000 miles. See Division 3, chapter 2, Article 2.1, section
10 and 17. (BTW: 2004-current Prius qualifies under the 10 year/
150,000 mile criteria.))
From: Mike Hunter on 5 Jul 2007 13:22
Actually both Toyota and Ford are likened to each others technology, since
it was developed under a joint venture, via Volvo.
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> In article <1183513496.126153.143730(a)k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
> "mrv(a)kluge.net" <mrv(a)kluge.net> wrote:
>> Sorry, I don't have data on the Ford Escape hybrid/Mercury Mariner
>> hybrid, for the relevant other group...
> Ford licenses Toyota's HSD, do they not?
From: Mike Hunter on 5 Jul 2007 14:02
Do you buy used furniture and clothing as well? I wish my wife did, I
could save a fortune. Speaking of wives, was you wife marred before as
"Bill Putney" <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote in message
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> The very same smart Americans that trade their new car on another new car
>> in three to four years, with 30K to 45K on the clock, yet pay a premium
>> price that will buy ALL of the fuel for a Corolla for three or four years
> I tend to buy used cars and keep them until they are pretty much worn out,
> so I don't do either of those things. But in your two scenarios, look
> what you have at the end of the 3 or 4 years: In one, a brand new car, in
> the other a 3 or 4 year old minimum capability car with new batteries.
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
> with the letter 'x')