From: SMS on
Mark A wrote:

> Nevertheless, I will probably purchase a 2009 model. Some lucky person is
> going to get my 98 (I have a couple of friends who want to buy it from me).

It's amazing that in 13 years both Toyota's MSRP and street prices have
gone up by so little, even though the standard equipment level is now
much higher.

I remember what we paid for the 1996 Camry, as well as the MSRP.

The MSRP has gone up by $1366 (with the same options we purchased at the
time), but ABS is now standard equipment, RKE is now standard equipment,
TPMS is standard equipment, engine immobilizer is standard equipment,
there are a lot more airbags, and it's a larger vehicle with a more
powerful engine. Part of the increase is due to the higher destination
charge, the actual base MSRP price increase was only $697.

The street price has gone up by slightly over $1000, based on equivalent
rebate programs at the time we purchased (and this is not based on
haggling, it's based on an "All in Stock at This Price" advertised price.

If you factor in what the 2009 model standard equipment cost as options
on the 1996 model, the prices have actually come down.
From: Mark A on
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson(a)> wrote in message
> More likely the rings in Scott's escort were stuck and the additive
> package in the Mobil 1 freed them up resulting in the increase in oil
> usage.
> The same thing could have happened if he'd have simply changed the oil
> brand from Castrol.
> I've switched many high mileage engines to Mobil 1 and never had a
> problem.

Certainly it is possible to switch a higher mileage vehicle to synthetic
without a problem, but the odds of a problem are increased if you wait that

From: Retired VIP on
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:51:02 -0400, "Mark A" <nobody(a)>

>"Retired VIP" <jackj.extradots.180(a)> wrote in message
>> <snip>
>> Unlike you, I have never used Mobil 1 or any other synthetic oil in
>> any of my cars.
>> <snip>
>> Jack
>Finally, a breadth of fresh air. Given your statement above, I don't think
>you are qualified to discuss the subject of synthetic oil.

I've never murdered anyone either Mark. Does that mean that I'm not
qualified to pass judgment on murder?

I've never rob a bank either. Can I state that robbing banks is bad?

You are sold on synthetic oils. That's fine and I have no problems
with you buying them and using them. Just don't try to tell me that
my life experiences with cars and conventional oils are invalid
because they don't back up your prejudices. If it wasn't for you and
folks like you, the manufactures of synthetic oils would have a very
limited market, mostly tropical and arctic climates.

Oh, by the way. I do use synthetic oil in my snow blower.

From: SMS on
Mike hunt wrote:
> If you did a search you will discover the real foots are those who change
> oil that often. All manufacturers today recommanda 5,000 or more. But
> then again with Toyotas "gelling problem" maybe 3000 miles might be a good
> idea at that. ;)

The gelling was on engines that should have had 5000 mile oil changes
(true severe service) but where the owner went well beyond even the
regular 7500 mile interval.

No one that understands the differences between oil and engines in the
1960's and today's engines and multi-weight detergent motor oils would
change their oil at 3000 miles. It's a complete waste of money and
resources, and every automotive expert attests to this fact. It may make
some people feel good, but it has no effect on engine longevity. If they
follow their own "cheap insurance" logic, they should be changing the
oil every 1000 miles or every 500 miles. Even though the engine life
will be the same as if they changed it every 5000 miles, at least
they'll feel good about what they're doing!

With synthetic you can probably safely go a little longer than 5000.
Synthetic oils withstand higher temperatures before breaking down, and
have more base stock and less viscosity modifiers. Synthetics wear out,
become acidic, and eventually become saturated with suspended soot
particles, just like regular oil. An oil analysis is a good investment
to determine the optimum oil change interval. Never exceed the
manufacturer requirements for normal service.

Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on
the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that
they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc
Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus
because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These
oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't
have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional
wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified
oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API
certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API
web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the
actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes
have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that
Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that
are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and
other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API
certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified
and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.

Unfortunately, there are market forces that have a vested interest in
convincing vehicle owners to change their oil more often than necessary.
The legal prey of these market forces have become convinced that they
are purchasing "cheap insurance" or "peace of mind" by changing their
oil more often than necessary. Complicating things is the fact that
doing oil changes is one of the few do-it-yourself maintenance tasks
that is still within the ability of the backyard mechanic to perform.
From: Mark A on
"SMS" <scharf.steven(a)> wrote in message
> Can you still buy Japanese Camrys in the U.S.? When we got our 1996, the
> west coast had mainly Japanese-made models, and the East Coast had mainly
> U.S.-built models. They were slightly different, as sometimes when I buy
> parts they need to know where it was built.
> It's rather ironic that more and more "foreign" cars are made in the U.S.,
> while more and more "American" cars are not built in the U.S..

I don't blame the American workers for the difference between US cars and
Japanese cars. There is very little (if any) difference in quality between a
Japanese made Camry and one built in the US.

The problem seems to be with the American car company designers and
engineers, not the people who assemble them. I really don't blame the
engineers either, since they are placed under very tight budget constraints.

American cars (for the most part) have gotten themselves into a quandary in
that they typically need to sell for a few thousand dollars less than a
Honda and Toyota, and the customer base of American cars tends to be people
with less income than buyers of cars from Japanese manufacturers. So the
quality of the American cars seems to be always a little less, which is a
difficult cycle to break since they are told to make them to sell less than
Japanese cars. Coupled with the very high pension and health care costs they
have to pay retired union workers, and the American companies are not able
to effectively compete head-on with Japanese cars in most cases.