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Next: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine
From: Dave L on 16 Jul 2008 15:56

"Mark A" <nobody(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:i2mfk.2094$w93.459(a)bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> ><nm5k(a)wt.net> wrote in message
> >news:4bb27c86-077d-4eae-8d02-ecdd0bf197ed(a)d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>But I don't agree with the ones that use synth oil as an excuse
>>to extend oil change skeds..
>>I think that's just plain dumb, even if you used liquid gold as oil
>>and the best filter money can buy.
>
> OTOH, there are people who change their conventional oil every 3,000 miles
> (which I might do if I used conventional oil). If those people extended
> their oil change interval to 5,000 miles when using a full synthetic, that
> would make a lot of sense, and make the cost differential almost zero.

Yeah, that's what I do. Mobil 1 5w20 every 5-6k on my Honda Accord which I
switched to on the 2nd oil change. (Yes, I know this is a Toyota NG). Few
extra bucks for Mobil 1 vs. conventional but at least I don't have to get it
done as frequently. Burnoff seems less.

-Dave


From: C. E. White on 17 Jul 2008 09:28

<johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a405144-147c-4000-b48c-e05da40a1e7a(a)i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> For those who rebuild engines one thing they know is NOT to use
> synthetics in the engine. Otherwise the rings won't set proplery.

I would argue that most people who claim this are repeating old wives
tales based on experiences from decades ago with early synthetics that
were very thin compared to standard motor oil of the period. The truth
is, synthetic oil of a given viscosity is not "slicker" than petroleum
oil of a similar viscosity. In fact, the additive package has more to
do with reducing friction than whether the oil is synthetic or
conventional. Some manufacturers (VW?) still use special break-in oil.
These oils include additional friction modifiers and anti-wear
ingredients, not less, and are likely to be "slicker" than "regular"
motor oils.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx

Ed

From: Retired VIP on 17 Jul 2008 14:58
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:28:33 -0400, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote:

>
><johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:0a405144-147c-4000-b48c-e05da40a1e7a(a)i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> For those who rebuild engines one thing they know is NOT to use
>> synthetics in the engine. Otherwise the rings won't set proplery.
>
>I would argue that most people who claim this are repeating old wives
>tales based on experiences from decades ago with early synthetics that
>were very thin compared to standard motor oil of the period. The truth
>is, synthetic oil of a given viscosity is not "slicker" than petroleum
>oil of a similar viscosity. In fact, the additive package has more to
>do with reducing friction than whether the oil is synthetic or
>conventional. Some manufacturers (VW?) still use special break-in oil.
>These oils include additional friction modifiers and anti-wear
>ingredients, not less, and are likely to be "slicker" than "regular"
>motor oils.
>
>http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx
>
>Ed

Ed, these guys aren't going to change their minds. I said basically
the same thing you said just before he posted this clap-trap.

A break-in period may be needed on an engine that was rebuilt at home
with new bearings and races. But only if second-rate parts without
the proper tolerances are used or if you're sloppy about how you put
the engine together. But new engines don't need a break-in period.
Keep your speed down below 50 mph for the first 50 or 60 miles to
allow the rings to settle into the piston groves and then drive it
like you will for the rest of it's life.

Jack
From: Mike hunt on 17 Jul 2008 18:45
Racing engines are "broker in" by running them at full trotte for an hour
LOL

"Retired VIP" <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote in message
news:hu4v74t2nvqe3gg62c8fe9cvbfb9c1lb09(a)4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:28:33 -0400, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:0a405144-147c-4000-b48c-e05da40a1e7a(a)i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> For those who rebuild engines one thing they know is NOT to use
>>> synthetics in the engine. Otherwise the rings won't set proplery.
>>
>>I would argue that most people who claim this are repeating old wives
>>tales based on experiences from decades ago with early synthetics that
>>were very thin compared to standard motor oil of the period. The truth
>>is, synthetic oil of a given viscosity is not "slicker" than petroleum
>>oil of a similar viscosity. In fact, the additive package has more to
>>do with reducing friction than whether the oil is synthetic or
>>conventional. Some manufacturers (VW?) still use special break-in oil.
>>These oils include additional friction modifiers and anti-wear
>>ingredients, not less, and are likely to be "slicker" than "regular"
>>motor oils.
>>
>>http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx
>>
>>Ed
>
> Ed, these guys aren't going to change their minds. I said basically
> the same thing you said just before he posted this clap-trap.
>
> A break-in period may be needed on an engine that was rebuilt at home
> with new bearings and races. But only if second-rate parts without
> the proper tolerances are used or if you're sloppy about how you put
> the engine together. But new engines don't need a break-in period.
> Keep your speed down below 50 mph for the first 50 or 60 miles to
> allow the rings to settle into the piston groves and then drive it
> like you will for the rest of it's life.
>
> Jack


From: Mark A on 17 Jul 2008 21:58
"Retired VIP" <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote in message
news:hu4v74t2nvqe3gg62c8fe9cvbfb9c1lb09(a)4ax.com...
> Ed, these guys aren't going to change their minds. I said basically
> the same thing you said just before he posted this clap-trap.
>
> A break-in period may be needed on an engine that was rebuilt at home
> with new bearings and races. But only if second-rate parts without
> the proper tolerances are used or if you're sloppy about how you put
> the engine together. But new engines don't need a break-in period.
> Keep your speed down below 50 mph for the first 50 or 60 miles to
> allow the rings to settle into the piston groves and then drive it
> like you will for the rest of it's life.
>
> Jack

First you say that no break-in period is needed, and then you go on to
describe the break-in period that should be followed for a new car.

"Keep your speed down below 50 mph for the first 50 or 60 miles to allow the
rings to settle into the piston groves..."

Most of the articles I have read suggest that a problem with improper ring
seating is "more likely" to occur with immediately switching to a full
synthetic, not that it will definitely cause a problem in every case. The
experts suggest the breaking period should be anywhere form a few hundred
miles to the first scheduled oil change, to 10K miles, depending on who you
ask.

Most experts have also said that automakers who use synthetic as factory
fill have taken special steps in the machining process to greatly reduce the
problem of improper piston/ring seating. That does not mean that all
automakers or all vehicle are alike in this regard, especially if they do
not use synthetic as factory fill. There is no denying that when Chevy first
specified factory fill of synthetic on the Corvette, they had a much higher
incidence of problems with improper ring seating. Obviously, they have done
something to alleviate that problem.

Given my own experience of changing to Mobil 1 full synthetic on a 1998
Camry V6 after the first oil change (5K miles), and having the engine
perform flawlessly thereafter for the last 10 years, I would inclined to
repeat that procedure again with a new car. It won't hurt to wait 5K miles
before switching to synthetic (unless maybe you live where it is below
zero), so why even get so worked up about it.

Often times the advise about when to switch to a full synthetic comes from
people who think synthetic is a waste of money, and who presumably do not
use it themselves. So consider the source of the advice.


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