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From: johngdole on 15 Jul 2008 23:39
European cars, like BMW, MB, come factory-filled with synthetics.
These do not have the traditional "break-in" period. But these are not
the low cost engines in the typical car either. Audi/VW however, use
break-in oil. So don't just drain it and refill with synthetic on the
way home.

For those who rebuild engines one thing they know is NOT to use
synthetics in the engine. Otherwise the rings won't set proplery.



On Jul 15, 6:12 pm, "Mark A" <nob...(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
> I agree that waiting 10K miles may be unnecessary, but it is not a fallacy
> that some break-in with conventional oil is a good idea:http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm
>
> There are plenty of other links to support this.
>
> For engines that use synthetic as factory fill, the manufacturer may well be
> using a different machining procedure on the piston rings and cylinder
> walls. Nevertheless, I can tell you from experience that waiting 5K miles
> before switching will not loose the long term benefits of synthetic oil.

From: johngdole on 15 Jul 2008 23:51
More than that. Owners still have to change the oil every 5000 miles.
This has been reduced by Toyota from 7500 miles since 2004 because of
engine sludge concerns. So, true, there is no real advantage given
that dinos work reasonably well during those intervals.



On Jul 15, 8:00 pm, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots....(a)windstream.net>
wrote:
>
> Synthetic oil won't stop engine wear.  Under normal conditions,
> synthetic oil won't even reduce wear by very much.  What it will do is
> remain liquid at colder temperature than conventional oils.  It also
> won't boil off as easily as conventional oils.  So you don't have to
> wait for your engine to wear before you use synthetic oils.  There's
> no great advantage to using them but go ahead and use them if you like
> to spend money.
>
> Jack

From: RT on 16 Jul 2008 00:49
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:00:33 GMT, Retired VIP
<jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:12:51 -0400, "Mark A" <nobody(a)nowhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore(a)databasix.com> wrote in message
>>news:g5jfu3$stc$3(a)blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:30:37 -0400, "Just Me" <JustMe(a)nowhere.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Spoke to my buddy today. He said he went back to the dealer and asked
>>>>someone in service about this and they said, "sure you can use synthetics.
>>>>Whoever told you you can't doesn't know what they're talking about."
>>>>Mystery solved.
>>>
>>> Indeed. It's also a falacy that you need to wait to use it. "Waiting
>>> for your engine to wear"? Feh.
>>
>>I agree that waiting 10K miles may be unnecessary, but it is not a fallacy
>>that some break-in with conventional oil is a good idea:
>>http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm
>>
>>There are plenty of other links to support this.
>>
>>For engines that use synthetic as factory fill, the manufacturer may well be
>>using a different machining procedure on the piston rings and cylinder
>>walls. Nevertheless, I can tell you from experience that waiting 5K miles
>>before switching will not loose the long term benefits of synthetic oil.
>>
>
>Synthetic oil won't stop engine wear. Under normal conditions,
>synthetic oil won't even reduce wear by very much. What it will do is
>remain liquid at colder temperature than conventional oils. It also
>won't boil off as easily as conventional oils. So you don't have to
>wait for your engine to wear before you use synthetic oils. There's
>no great advantage to using them but go ahead and use them if you like
>to spend money.
>
>Jack

I agree with this. I think it's much more effective to change oil
regularly with normal (non synth) oil.
Only time I would use synthetic is when: it costs as much as regular
oil or I live in extreme cold climates.
From: nm5k on 16 Jul 2008 03:54
On Jul 15, 11:49 pm, RT <noyabusin...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> >Synthetic oil won't stop engine wear.  Under normal conditions,
> >synthetic oil won't even reduce wear by very much.  What it will do is
> >remain liquid at colder temperature than conventional oils.  It also
> >won't boil off as easily as conventional oils.  So you don't have to
> >wait for your engine to wear before you use synthetic oils.  There's
> >no great advantage to using them but go ahead and use them if you like
> >to spend money.
>
> >Jack
>
> I agree with this. I think it's much more effective to change oil
> regularly with normal (non synth) oil.
> Only time I would use synthetic is when: it costs as much as regular
> oil or I live in extreme cold climates.

I compromise.. I use the syntec blend, which gives some of the
advantages, but not quite as pricy as full synth oil..
I change every 5k, no matter what oil I use.
The main reason I use the syntec vs dino oil is for the
bit better breakdown protection, and also resists gelling,
which is a concern on Toyota engines.. Even the newer
"post gelling prone" years with the slight engine changes..
But that shouldn't be a problem if you change every 5k even
with just dino oil.
The difference in the long term is not huge as far as engine
wear, but there is a difference none the less. If you rack up
200k and compare the two types of oil, you will usually see
noticeably less engine wear using the synth oil.
But I don't agree with the ones that use synth oil as an excuse
to extend oil change skeds..
I think that's just plain dumb, even if you used liquid gold as oil
and the best filter money can buy..
Which leads to another issue.. Over filtering..
I'm of the opinion that it's quite possible to over filter, which
can lead to reduced oil flow, and easier clogging of the filter.
And if the filter clogs, the bypass kicks in.. No filtering..
Or at least I assume the newer engines still use a bypass...
Myself, I use regular grade filters.. I don't buy the high $$$
versions..
From: Mark A on 16 Jul 2008 08:45
><nm5k(a)wt.net> wrote in message
>news:4bb27c86-077d-4eae-8d02-ecdd0bf197ed(a)d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>But I don't agree with the ones that use synth oil as an excuse
>to extend oil change skeds..
>I think that's just plain dumb, even if you used liquid gold as oil
>and the best filter money can buy.

OTOH, there are people who change their conventional oil every 3,000 miles
(which I might do if I used conventional oil). If those people extended
their oil change interval to 5,000 miles when using a full synthetic, that
would make a lot of sense, and make the cost differential almost zero.


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Next: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine