Prev: Insteqad of pissing and moaning, "john" how about doing something useful?
Next: {BS} Test
From: Ed White on 5 Feb 2010 09:58
On Feb 4, 7:25 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrj...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3rem...(a)mindspring.com> wrote in messagenews:eYqdnaAwDvxq2_fWnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...

> You don't make any sense at all, Ed. If you believe that the driver is
> pressing the wrong pedals -- pure absurdity, if you ask me -- then why blame
> Toyota for anything at all? Toyota is not pressing the pedals, and the
> pedals are in generally the same place in all cars since the begining of
> history, so it some idiot is confused, it can't be Toyota's fault by any
> stretch of the imagination.

I am not claiming that all cases are caused by pedal confusion, but I
ma sure many are. And pedals are not all located exactly the same. The
relative positions of the pedals might be the same, but how close they
are togehter, the relative heights of the pedals, and the shapes of
the pedals vary greatly. In some cars the brake and accelerator pedals
are very close together and at the same heights. For these cars it is
very easy for some people to accidentally have at least a small part
of a foot on both pedals. If you don't realize this, and you press on
the brake, you can depress the accelerator pedal at the same time.
Generally brake pedals move a significant distance before the brakes
take effect. This same movement on the accelrator pedal can result in
a significant opening of the throttle. When this happens the car will
surge just as you think you are pressing the brake. I've done this
myself in multiple different vehicles. I have large feet, so maybe it
is more likely in my case, but I am sure it happens to others. I've
never had an accident as a result, but I can see how it could happen.
This sort of pedal confusion was determined to be the cause of the
Audi 5000 sudden acceleration problems in decades past.

> Toyota wouuld have nothing to do but shift the blame to the pedal pushers,
> just like you seem to be doing.

Again, I am not saying all cases are caused by pedal confusion. Put
even for pedal confusion cases, it would be Toyota's problem if Toyota
cars can be shown to be especailly prone to this concern.

>
> Having said that, you are apparently unaware of the California Highway
> Patrol officer that was killed while at the helm of one of these cars, his
> wife and daughter, and the wife's brother were all killed as well. Surely a
> CHP officer did not confuse the pedals while driving on an open highway. YOU
> might be stupid enough to confuse the pedals, or maybe your great
> grandmother might misplace the pedals, but nobody else is confused about
> which pedal does what. And if you were, Toyota would be correct to say, the
> driver screwed it up by confusing the pedals. They can't fix your stupidity.
> Nor should they even try

Again, "most" does not equal "all." And when I say pedal confusion, I
am not talking about deliberately pressing the wrong pedal. I am
talking about inadvertently pressing both pdeals at once. Clearly this
is not what happened in that California accident. That was a very
strange case. The guy driving the car was not particularly bright or
he really paniced. Would you have left the "run away car" in gear long
enough to have people in the car call 911 and report the problem?
Wouldn't you shift the car into neutral at some point? California HP
officier must not get particularly good training. I'll bet my Mother
could have handled that situation better than he did. I understand
that the push button start engine control was a confusing factor, but
nothing kept him from shifting the car into neutral except stupidity
or panic (and the panic must have lasted a long time....).

Ed

Ed
From: Jeff Strickland on 5 Feb 2010 12:17
The problems with run-away cars is happening on the highway at speed, not in
parking lots or in city driving where the brakes would be employed.

Automakers go to great pains to make the level of the pedals the same so the
driver merely moves his foot to the left to get to the brake. The automakers
that don't go to the trouble have pedals that require the foot to be lifted
and moved left to get to the brake. The really crappy automakers don't
provide a foot rest for the left foot, and the they also don't care how much
work you go through to apply the brakes.

There is nothing about the problems at Toyota that suggest the driver is
pressing the wrong pedal. Indeed, with the widening problems, it seems that
some of the pedals are not responding to being pressed while others are not
responding to the absence of being pressed.

Blaming Toyota isn't wrong, considering the problems being addressed. But to
say that the drivers are pressing the wrong pedals, then blaming Toyota is
absurd.






From: C. E. White on 5 Feb 2010 18:34

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hkhjr2$ish$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> The problems with run-away cars is happening on the highway at speed, not
> in parking lots or in city driving where the brakes would be employed.
>
> Automakers go to great pains to make the level of the pedals the same so
> the driver merely moves his foot to the left to get to the brake. The
> automakers that don't go to the trouble have pedals that require the foot
> to be lifted and moved left to get to the brake. The really crappy
> automakers don't provide a foot rest for the left foot, and the they also
> don't care how much work you go through to apply the brakes.
>
> There is nothing about the problems at Toyota that suggest the driver is
> pressing the wrong pedal. Indeed, with the widening problems, it seems
> that some of the pedals are not responding to being pressed while others
> are not responding to the absence of being pressed.
>
> Blaming Toyota isn't wrong, considering the problems being addressed. But
> to say that the drivers are pressing the wrong pedals, then blaming Toyota
> is absurd.

I am willing to blame Toyota for the actual cases where defects are
involved. I am sure there are cases where the vehicles "ran away" or didn't
slow down properly because of either the floor mat problem, or the pedal
design problem, or the return mechanism problem, or some other problem. But
I also believe that many of the 100 or so complaints in the NHTSA database
are the results of pedal confusion. The news just had another report of
sudden acceleration where a little old lady drove her Camry through a store
front. This is exactly the sort of problems that happen because of peddle
confusion. The car in this accident didn't have floor mats and was an older
model with an actual throttle cable, so I don't believe you could blame this
particular "run away" Toyota on either of the current problems. Toyota is
not the only manufacturer that suffers from sudden acceleration complaints.
If you check the NHTSA database I believe you will find sudden acceleration
complaints against most vehicle manufacturers.

To be clear - I do believe Toyota had exceptional problems with sudden
acceleration that are related to design defects. I just don't believe every
case reported is related to the reported defects. I am not making apologies
for Toyota. Quite the opposite, I believe Toyota is the most dishonest major
auto company currently selling vehicles in the US. Toyota has a history of
dishonesty when it comes to addressing defects unrivaled in America today.
The head of Toyota should apologize not just for the current spate of
problems but come clean regarding Toyota's long history of deceit.

Ed

 | 
Pages: 1
Prev: Insteqad of pissing and moaning, "john" how about doing something useful?
Next: {BS} Test