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From: Ray O on 5 Oct 2007 23:19 <davejohansen(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:1191600397.388636.226160(a)d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > On Oct 4, 6:48 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: >> <snipped> >> >> > The description of the code is "Post-convertor O2 Sensor heater or >> > circuit fault" and I have actually tried replacing the O2 Sensor with >> > a Bosch and a Denso replacement part and neither of those fixed the >> > problem. I did tests to make sure that the wiring was fine and it all >> > appears to be ok, so that's why I'm stuck without any ideas of how to >> > fix it but I'm definitely open to any and all suggestions. >> > Dave >> >> Where are you located? >> -- >> >> Ray O >> (correct punctuation to reply) > > To answer your questions, I'm in Tucson, AZ. > > But as an update, I took my car to the dealer this week and they said > that they ran some diagnostics on the old ECU and the new one that I > had put in. The diagnostics showed that they were both bad. I had them > put a new one in and the car is now running fine with no codes. > Unfortunately, it cost $500 for the new ECU, but I was sick of dealing > with the problem and I'm glad that the problem is finally fixed. > > Thanks again everyone for all of the help, > Dave > Dave, Thank you for the update. It is good to hear that the problem is solved, and I hope it is a sign of a run of great luck for you. If you were in the Chicago area, I would have looked at the car myself. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)
From: davejohansen on 6 Oct 2007 12:48 On Oct 5, 8:19 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > <davejohan...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1191600397.388636.226160(a)d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Oct 4, 6:48 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > >> <snipped> > > >> > The description of the code is "Post-convertor O2 Sensor heater or > >> > circuit fault" and I have actually tried replacing the O2 Sensor with > >> > a Bosch and a Denso replacement part and neither of those fixed the > >> > problem. I did tests to make sure that the wiring was fine and it all > >> > appears to be ok, so that's why I'm stuck without any ideas of how to > >> > fix it but I'm definitely open to any and all suggestions. > >> > Dave > > >> Where are you located? > >> -- > > >> Ray O > >> (correct punctuation to reply) > > > To answer your questions, I'm in Tucson, AZ. > > > But as an update, I took my car to the dealer this week and they said > > that they ran some diagnostics on the old ECU and the new one that I > > had put in. The diagnostics showed that they were both bad. I had them > > put a new one in and the car is now running fine with no codes. > > Unfortunately, it cost $500 for the new ECU, but I was sick of dealing > > with the problem and I'm glad that the problem is finally fixed. > > > Thanks again everyone for all of the help, > > Dave > > Dave, > > Thank you for the update. It is good to hear that the problem is solved, > and I hope it is a sign of a run of great luck for you. > > If you were in the Chicago area, I would have looked at the car myself. > -- > > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Thanks and I am very grateful to everyone that helped me out during this process. It's been a little frustrating at times, but I've learned a lot and I definitely couldn't have done it without all of the help from everyone here. Dave
From: johngdole on 6 Oct 2007 15:06 Ray you tried to help people and I'm all for that. It's just that with your automotive background and still not know how to properly diagnose this problem was a disappointment. For example, Dave didn't need to get that third (?) Denso sensor at all or even any new sensor now that the problem seems to be with the ECU. And I hope Dave didn't use the parts store as a test bench. ;-) On Sep 9, 8:36 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > We have come to the same conclusion, but through a different path. You seem > to be offended by the advice I am giving, and that is absolutely not my > intent. > > Even though I am not an expert in electronics, I have had good results by > making sure technicians have followed all of the steps in the factory repair > manual (unfortunately, steps get skipped fairly often by experienced > technicians because their experience lets them get away with it most of the > time). > > I don't think that the blue-black wire that the Dave described as cut and > grounded in one of his earlier posts is supposed to be grounded. In a later > post, he said that proper voltage between the terminal at the end of the > blue-black wire and ground is 12 volts. I don't know what grounding that > wire would do the ECU - would that damage the ECU? > > The reason that I did not tell Dave to check the grounding circuitry in the > ECU that turns on the O2 sensor heater is that I think the grounding is > inside the ECU and not testable without opening up the ECU. In a simple > circuit, Toyota generally does not run ground wires all the way from a > component to the ECU if the component can be grounded with a shorter wire. > My assumption is that the heater return wire has to have voltage when it > gets back to the ECU, and if the wire is grounded before the ECU, the ECU > won't see the correct voltage and assume an open or short circuit. > > I am not right 100% of the time. I only looked at cars that the dealers had > problems with and can only recall 3 occasions where I had to have an > engineer look at something I couldn't fix. Two of those vehicles were > diesels, which I have no experience on, and we bought back the third one > because we couldn't find the problem. An employee bought that third one and > never experienced the problem that the original customer had. Perhaps this > is another occasion where I am wrong, but in my opinion, one can't go wrong > by starting with the basics. > -- > > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply)
From: davejohansen on 6 Oct 2007 18:04 On Oct 6, 12:06 pm, johngd...(a)hotmail.com wrote: > Ray you tried to help people and I'm all for that. It's just that with > your automotive background and still not know how to properly diagnose > this problem was a disappointment. > > For example, Dave didn't need to get that third (?) Denso sensor at > all or even any new sensor now that the problem seems to be with the > ECU. And I hope Dave didn't use the parts store as a test bench. ;-) > > On Sep 9, 8:36 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > > > We have come to the same conclusion, but through a different path. You seem > > to be offended by the advice I am giving, and that is absolutely not my > > intent. > > > Even though I am not an expert in electronics, I have had good results by > > making sure technicians have followed all of the steps in the factory repair > > manual (unfortunately, steps get skipped fairly often by experienced > > technicians because their experience lets them get away with it most of the > > time). > > > I don't think that the blue-black wire that the Dave described as cut and > > grounded in one of his earlier posts is supposed to be grounded. In a later > > post, he said that proper voltage between the terminal at the end of the > > blue-black wire and ground is 12 volts. I don't know what grounding that > > wire would do the ECU - would that damage the ECU? > > > The reason that I did not tell Dave to check the grounding circuitry in the > > ECU that turns on the O2 sensor heater is that I think the grounding is > > inside the ECU and not testable without opening up the ECU. In a simple > > circuit, Toyota generally does not run ground wires all the way from a > > component to the ECU if the component can be grounded with a shorter wire. > > My assumption is that the heater return wire has to have voltage when it > > gets back to the ECU, and if the wire is grounded before the ECU, the ECU > > won't see the correct voltage and assume an open or short circuit. > > > I am not right 100% of the time. I only looked at cars that the dealers had > > problems with and can only recall 3 occasions where I had to have an > > engineer look at something I couldn't fix. Two of those vehicles were > > diesels, which I have no experience on, and we bought back the third one > > because we couldn't find the problem. An employee bought that third one and > > never experienced the problem that the original customer had. Perhaps this > > is another occasion where I am wrong, but in my opinion, one can't go wrong > > by starting with the basics. > > -- > > > Ray O > > (correct punctuation to reply) In Ray's defense, I actually had a couple other mechanics tell me even more bizarre stuff to try to fix the problem (change fuel filter and catalytic converter) and the dealer told me that that was the first ECU they've ever had to change because those things have insanely low failure rates, so I think that Ray was just going with the most likely case of what the problem was. Dave
From: Ray O on 6 Oct 2007 19:35
<johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1191697587.844515.298030(a)o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > Ray you tried to help people and I'm all for that. It's just that with > your automotive background and still not know how to properly diagnose > this problem was a disappointment. > > For example, Dave didn't need to get that third (?) Denso sensor at > all or even any new sensor now that the problem seems to be with the > ECU. And I hope Dave didn't use the parts store as a test bench. ;-) > John, I am not the one who told Dave to get the third sensor. I rarely tell anyone to replace parts to fix a problem because that is the worst possible way to go about the task, especially if the part is not checked or inspected first. I post quite a bit here, and if you read a lot of my posts, you should note that my advice is almost always to check a component. When I told Dave that he got some bad advice (I was referring to the advice from another poster to replace the sensor) I wasn't referring to your advice. I did advise to get a Denso sensor the next time he needs one, and you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one ;-) As far as the sequence of diagnostic tests, I wanted to make sure that the wiring between the sensor and ECU was repaired and not shorted to ground before suggesting replacing the ECU so that the replacement ECU wouldn't be damaged. Since ECU's tend to be very expensive, I don't like recommending replacement until everything else has been checked. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |