From: Built_Well on 1 Nov 2007 10:48
Ray O wrote:
> 5W-20 is probably OK to you in your car, but rather
> than obsess about it and start a long thread about
> something where we will never know a definitive answer
> and waste everyone's time, I'd just stick to what the
> factory said to use.
It's not a matter of obsessing over it. It's a matter
of exploring the topic, and having fun doing it.
I'd love to put 0w-30 in my Camry if we can reach a
definitive answer as to its appropriateness. The
0w-30 provides the great advantage of being less
viscous (not as thick) at cold-starting temperatures, where
90 percent of engine wear occurs.
I again recommend folks read the following surgeon and PhD.'s
thorough discussion of the matter at
I learned a lot from his article.
Just to repeat, the '06 Camry's manual recommends 5w-30 in
the 2AZ engine, but the '08 Camry Solara's oil filler cap
has both 5w-*20* and 0w-20 marked on it.
The Solara also has the 2AZ engine. So it's reasonable
to assume that 0w-30 could be used in the 2-year-old Camry
without ill effect. The advantage of using 0w-30 in cold
climates is substantial.
And, of course, both 5w-30 and 0w-30 oils have the same viscosity
at engine operating temperature. (30-weights can range in viscosity
between 9.3 and 12.49 at 212 Fahrenheit, a pretty tight range. For
instance, Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 is 10.5 at 212 F, and Mobil 1 is
11.4 at 212 F.
I wonder if anyone owns an '07 or '08 Solara? What does your manual
say about oil?
From: Mike Romain on 1 Nov 2007 10:51
Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> "Built_Well" <built_well_toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>>> For automatic transmission vehicles, Park should be sufficient to lock
>>> front wheels from turning, parking brake should be sufficient to lock
>>> rear wheels from turning.
>> I had been really busy the past 4 days, and so didn't have much time to
>> However, when some free time finally opened up yesterday, the first
>> thing I did was get the floor jack from Sam's and lift the car onto
>> Daniel, I can say that placing the drive selector lever in Park in an
>> automatic transmission car was /not/ sufficient to keep the front wheels
>> from turning. They turned quite freely, in both forwards and backwards
>> directions while the car was in the air.
> In my experience, Park should hold the front wheels relatively stationary.
> This has been the case when I have had to remove and reinstall wheels on
> Chevrolet, Buick, and Nissan vehicles. (And, I realize that two of the
> crossposted groups are Toyota groups, but this has also been crossposted to
> rec.autos.tech which is an all makes group.)
> There may be a small amount of back and forth movement when some amount of
> torque is applied with the wheel lug nuts while the wheel is raised above
> the ground, but the motion should be very slight at most, and should reach a
> definite stopping point very soon.
You keep forgetting the OP was told he had to have 'all' the wheels in
the air, not just one side or one corner.
This allows an open differential to spin with the other side's wheel
going in the opposite direction or the same direction in locker or some
The e-brake only stops rear wheels 'maybe' from spinning, but most won't
hold a torque wrench, especially in the reverse rotation of the wheel
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
From: Steve W. on 1 Nov 2007 13:17
> Ray O wrote:
>> Noises are difficult to identify without hearing them first hand, but
>> creaking noises would make ME nervous unless you are lifting from a
>> suspension component or axle.
> Well, I lifted exactly where the manual instructs. The center
> front-end lifting point is found just after the protective plastic
> cover. The point is in the middle of a really thick beam that spans the
> width of the car.
> I only heard the soft, quiet creaking noise for one or two seconds as
> the car just began to rise, so I think everything's alright.
> Thanks for that tip about having somebody watch over me in case
> the unthinkable happens and the jack stands fail. I can't tell you
> how nervous I was going underneath the car today, but I did
> it. I just hope this isn't how I buy the farm. Yow! You really
> place your life in your hands when you go underneath the car.
> I didn't realize how much so until today.
> Are there things for which you, personally, spend a lot of time under
> the car? If yes, what? Oil changes must not require long stays
> underneath the vehicle, and rotating tires doesn't require one to go
> By the way, I took another look at that '08 Camry Solara SLE on display
> at Sam's Club. It has the 2AZ engine, which is the same as
> my '06 Camry LE. Yet the oil filler cap of the Solara says it can take
> 5w-*20* and 0w-20 oil, which is different than the 5w-*30* that the '06
> Camry takes.
> I wouldn't put a 20-weight oil in my car, but, like I've said before,
> I would possibly consider a 0w-30 in place of the customary 5w-30.
> What do you think is going on? If 5w-*20* is okay for the 2AZ engine
> in the '08 Solara, why wouldn't it be okay in the same 2AZ engine in
> the '06 Camry?
Totally normal to hear a few squeaks and groans as you lift a vehicle.
That is the rubber bushings in the A arms, struts, shocks spring rubbers
and such all shifting around as you take the full weight of the vehicle
off them. Think of it as the same sigh of relief you would give if you
had a weight on your chest lifted after a few years!
Once you get the vehicle in the air and put the stands under it I hope
you are setting the vehicle down on the jack stands. NEVER TRUST A
HYDRAULIC JACK ALONE! EVER! If possible I just leave the jack in the
same spot that I used to lift the vehicle. Just lower it enough to set
on the stands. That gives you three points of contact.
The oil difference is easy. Emission laws! Take a look at all the
different auto makers. They still use the same bearing materials and
clearances and yet they keep spec'ing thinner and thinner oils. The
thinner oils reduce start-up and running friction (at the expense of
reduced film thickness on the bearings) so they can lower the emissions
and increase the gas mileage.
I would just run the 5W-30 in both and buy a case of WIX or NAPA Gold
filters (same filter just different name on the box).
Near Cooperstown, New York
From: Ray on 1 Nov 2007 23:18
> Just to repeat, the '06 Camry's manual recommends 5w-30 in
> the 2AZ engine, but the '08 Camry Solara's oil filler cap
> has both 5w-*20* and 0w-20 marked on it.
> The Solara also has the 2AZ engine. So it's reasonable
> to assume that 0w-30 could be used in the 2-year-old Camry
> without ill effect. The advantage of using 0w-30 in cold
> climates is substantial.
Just because it's the same engine family, doesn't mean it's the same
engine. Everything from slightly revised bearings to expected usage can
call for a different spec oil.
For example - does one car have an oil cooler?
From: Built_Well on 2 Nov 2007 01:12
Steve W. wrote:
> [The automakers] still use the same bearing materials and
> clearances and yet they keep spec'ing thinner and thinner oils.
Thanks for that tip about the Wix and Napa Gold oil filters.
Napa, by the way, has a 3- or 3.5-ton /professional-grade/ floor jack
on sale right now for $200. I guess the professional grade can be
used on a daily basis in a shop-type setting without breaking down.
I agree with you about using jack stands. The manual for the
Michelin jack from Sam's Club says "This is a lifting device
only. After lifting, immediately transfer the load to
appropriately rated vehicle stands."
There's a lot of good info in my jack's manual, so I keep the
4-page jack manual tucked neatly inside my car's manual.
The jack manual says "for best performance and longest life,
replace the complete fluid supply at least once per year." It also
says to use a good grade hydraulic jack oil like Mobil DTE 13M.
How often do you all change your jack's oil?
My only complaint about this brand new Michelin jack is it's slightly
rusty in spots. I guess I'll have to clean up the rust and repaint
the surfaces and/or add lubricant for protection. That's not what
I was expecting from a brand new jack.