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From: Built_Well on 24 Oct 2007 13:57 Last time I wrote that the Kobalt torque wrench at Lowe's is made by Danaher. I don't know if the Kobalts used to be made by Snap-On at one time, but if you go to Lowe's today, and look at the packaging of the Kobalt 1/2-inch 150 foot-pound torquer, you'll see it has Danaher on the packaging. I think Proto tools are made by Stanley. Stanley might also make /some/ of the Craftsman, Matco, and Mac tools. Here's some info written by Mech1 on the LS1tech.com forum: "WOW! it sounds like some people need to do some research on the tools they use or plan to purchase. First off Proto is a product of Stanley. And no they are not the plain stanley tools made in china like they sell at wal-mart. To me Proto is as good as it gets. They are put through more testing b/c they are industrial tools used by NASA, the military, and other industries. I am a mech in the coal and oil industry. If you have ever been to either i build the dryers & shakers and stuff. You will hardly ever go to the tool room of a wash plant and find a Snap-On or Craftsman tool. <- JUNK. Ok stay with me here. "There are three key players in the tool industry. Stanley, Danahar, & Snap-on all about the same in revenue. Blackhawk is a tool by Proto. Mac is owned by Stanley. Kobalt is a Snap-On tool." [Built_Well's note: I have to disagree with Mech1 here. Maybe Kobalt was a Snap-On in 2004 when Mech1 wrote this, but the Kobalt torquer at Lowe's today is a Danaher.] Back to Mech1: "Craftsman tools was made by Stanley up until 1994 now they are made by Danahar which hires companies from thailand & china to make some of their tools. Craftsmans power tools like cordless drills are made by Ryobi (not sure about spelling) which is why they are such junk. Facom owns S&K (a.k.a Slip & Kill). When it comes down to it if you do your research most of these tools are junk except Proto and williams and maybe snap-on. I'm not saying that a proto tool is not going to fail. Nor am i saying that all Snap-on tools will fail. No tool is perfect. As far as Torque wrenches we have 1 craftsman torque wrench we only use it for1/2" 20 (which is fine thread) bolts which torques at about 135lbs. And the last time i used it it didn't want to click. when it comes to torque 1" bolts to 850 lbs the only tool we trust is a proto torque wrench. We have one machine we have to torque several bolts to 1900 lbs and i don't think a cheap pos is going to last after the first bolt. Now i don't know what you guys are torque n but one hing to keep in mind is lubrication. In some cases if you don't lubricate your bolts with anti-seize your bolt can lock up and yea break your torque wrench. Trust me you don't want this to happen when you are torqueing at 600+ lbs b/c your wrench will break and slip and it hurts. Just remember that if you use anti-seize you have to subtract 20% off your torque. Also using good bolts like L-9's or E8's instead of cheap grade 4's will help also. Well anyways i just happened to come to the page on a search hope i helped someone out. Got any good tool questions look me up." SubVet says: "Mech 1 is correct on those tool companies. In addition to what he said, Williams Tools was bought up by Snap-On. Danaher owns/makes tools for: Armstrong, Matco, Craftsman, AllenTM, KD-Tools, Holo-Krome, NAPA, and SATA. Stanley owns/makes Husky, Mac, and Proto Tools (a very expensive industrial brand), Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and industrial customers (including General Motors). As Mentioned SK is owned by Facom....which is a French Company." --- Here's a link to the page where this discussion took place in 2004: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-130628.html Tool on!
From: Built_Well on 24 Oct 2007 16:55 Here's a couple more choice pieces from that torque wrench discussion: "Never use your torque wrench to loosen a bolt, that's not what it was designed for. Even if the wrench is designed to be used in the CCW direction, it will cause excess wear on the internals." "....Extreme cold and hot temperatures will throw off their accuracy." "Craftsman wrenches, especially the type with the setting window were absolute junk. Not only did most of them not meet their specs out of the box, but they would not adjust within specs on the high and low end of the scale. They were typically non-linear (low on the low setting, and high on the high setting) which resulted in having to send them back to Sears for replacement. And lots of torque wrenches are not accurate out of the box. They actually need re-calibrating before you even use it for the first time!" "....If you hold the wrench by a part other than the center of the handle (like the metal body, or if you are for some reason using a pipe to extend the handle) it can throw off the accuracy greatly. Any kind of extension will reduce the applied torque value due to flex, and also extreme cold and hot temperatures will throw off their accuracy." Here's LS1's complete post: "I've been a Calibration Technician for almost 8 year now. During that time I've verified the accuracy of and repaired/adjusted hundreds of torque wrenches in both the military and civilian sectors. Here are my comments based on what I've experienced: Snap-On makes a very durable torque wrench that can be accurate and remain so after it is adjusted correctly. They tend to be reliable over time, but I would not trust the accuracy of the wrench when it is first purchased. Most of the wrenches that we cal'd for the Air Force were spec'd at +/-4% CW and +/-6% CCW, and I would say that only about 50% of them met this spec out of the box. After we adjusted them initially to our CDI standard, they held the adjustment great and performed accurately. Almost all of these were the click-type. Craftsman wrenches, especially the type with the setting window were absolute junk. Not only did most of them not meet their specs out of the box, but they would not adjust within specs on the high and low end of the scale. They were typically non-linear (low on the low setting, and high on the high setting) which resulted in having to send them back to Sears for replacement. I don't remember having too many problems with Proto wrenches... nothing that stands out in my mind anyways. I have only dealt with two Husky wrenches, both were 250# click-types. I bought one and my brother-in-law bought one from Home Depot at the same time. I checked the accuracy of both of them before use, and they were both within 2% CW, I didn't check either of them CCW since we weren't going to use them in that direction. I pulled my wrench out of the shed where it had been sitting for 2 years without being used, and took it in to work to make sure it was still accurate and found that the handle retaining nuts had come loose so the handle was spinning freely instead of adjusting the torque setting. The fix was as simple as jamming a flat-headed screwdriver inside the back of the handle to hold the nut in place, then back the Allen head adjustment screw out against it. This tightened it back up so I could set the torque, so I checked the accuracy and it is still within +/-2%!. I think we paid $40 each for these wrenches, and they're one of the best values I have found yet. The beam style wrenches are usually very accurate throughout their useable lives, but are not always the easiest to use. No wrench can be expected to be more accurate than its manufacturer's specifications though, even though some of them are. For storage purposes with all torque wrenches, you should return the wrench to its lowest setting before putting it away. There is a spring inside that can get damaged if you don't. Never use your torque wrench to loosen a bolt, that's not what it was designed for. Even if the wrench is designed to be used in the CCW direction, it will cause excess wear on the internals. Why not use a cheap breaker bar that has no accuracy requirements instead? I personally will never again use a Husky TQ wrech due to the awful accuracy of the units I have personally handled. Out of curiosity, how did you verify the accuracy of your Husky torque wrenches? Based on their constuction and the readings that I've taken with mine and my brother-in-law's torque wrench, they should be pretty reliable and accurate. There are several factors related to the way it is used that can influence the accuracy of a torque wrench. If you aren't holding the handle level while trying to tighten the fastener, I've seen it throw off readings by 10-15%. Also if you hold the wrench by a part other than the center of the handle (like the metal body, or if you are for some reason using a pipe to extend the handle) it can throw off the accuracy greatly. Any kind of extension will reduce the applied torque value due to flex, and also extreme cold and hot temperatures will throw off their accuracy. Torque wrenches should definitely have their accuracy verified on a regular interval though. Most of our customers use a 12 month interval, people who use them very often might use a 6 month interval, and most of the Air Force departments sent theirs in every 3 months! Verifying accuracy is important for all measuring tools though, torque wrenches, DMMs, oscilloscopes, etc. Let me know if you have any other questions! I covered everything that came to the top of my mind. :cheers:
From: Mark A on 24 Oct 2007 17:20 "Built_Well" <built_well_toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:pan.2007.10.24.20.55.10.441461(a)hotmail.com... > > Here's a couple more choice pieces from that torque > wrench discussion: You know, if you had gotten a job at McDonalds flipping burgers, and only worked the number of hours you have spent posting about the merits of various tools on this newsgroup, then you could have purchased the finest and most expensive tools available with the minimum wage salary you would have earned. In other words, you have beat this subject to death.
From: Built_Well on 24 Oct 2007 17:40 Mark A wrote: > Built_Well wrote: > >> Here's a couple more choice pieces from that torque >> wrench discussion: >> ======== > > You know, if you had gotten a job at McDonalds flipping burgers, and only > worked the number of hours you have spent posting about the merits of > various tools on this newsgroup, then you could have purchased the finest > and most expensive tools available with the minimum wage salary you would > have earned. > > In other words, you have beat this subject to death. ======== Is that right, Mark A.? Mark, I just wanted to wish you a Happy Hanukkah two months early. I know that I celebrate Christmas, and you celebrate Chanukah, but there's no reason we can't wish each other happy holidays.
From: clifto on 25 Oct 2007 17:57
Built_Well wrote: > Here's a couple more choice pieces from that torque > wrench discussion: > [snip] > Here's LS1's complete post: > [snip] I love the fact that he loves Husky... > I have only dealt with two Husky wrenches, both were 250# click-types. I bought > one and my brother-in-law bought one from Home Depot at the same time. I > checked the accuracy of both of them before use, and they were both within > 2% CW, I didn't check either of them CCW since we weren't going to use > them in that direction. I pulled my wrench out of the shed where it had > been sitting for 2 years without being used, and took it in to work to > make sure it was still accurate and found that the handle retaining nuts > had come loose so the handle was spinning freely instead of adjusting the > torque setting. The fix was as simple as jamming a flat-headed screwdriver > inside the back of the handle to hold the nut in place, then back the > Allen head adjustment screw out against it. This tightened it back up so I > could set the torque, so I checked the accuracy and it is still within > +/-2%!. I think we paid $40 each for these wrenches, and they're one of > the best values I have found yet. > [snip] ....but hates Husky... > I personally will never again use a Husky TQ wrech due to the awful accuracy of > the units I have personally handled. ....but loves Husky: > Out of curiosity, how did you verify > the accuracy of your Husky torque wrenches? Based on their constuction and > the readings that I've taken with mine and my brother-in-law's torque > wrench, they should be pretty reliable and accurate. -- One meter, to within 0.0125% accuracy (off by just under .005 inches): Three feet Three inches Three eights of an inch |