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From: Mark A on 21 Oct 2007 22:26 "Built_Well" <built_well_toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:471c0352$0$90430 > Sure, we can differ on this point. I'm just saying that both the > Camry manual and "Auto Upkeep" instruct to fully tighten the lug nuts > after the car is completely lowered (in the case of the Camry manual) > or the tires are lowered to the point of just barely touching the > ground (in the case of "Auto Upkeep"). > > Apparently the "Auto Upkeep" author thinks there's some advantage > to fully tightening the wheels while the car is not completely lowered. > > I'm not sure what Auto Upkeep's logic is, but both the Camry manual > and "Auto Upkeep" instruct not to fully tighten the wheels while > the car is way up in the air. The logic is obvious. If the nuts are too loose and the car is fully lowered, then the weight of the car will shift the load among the bolts in an uneven fashion, and even if you torque the nuts when the car is on the ground, they will not be equally tight against the wheel. But if one takes reasonable care to gently (but firmly) tighten the nuts while the car is in the air, then this should not be a problem. Then do the final tightening when the car is fully lowered, or when the wheels are barely touching if you are really paranoid (I am sure that does not apply to anyone in this newsgroup).
From: Built_Well on 22 Oct 2007 00:15 Mark A. wrote: > [some things] ======== Ray_O already mentioned (long before you, Mark) that the wheels need to be firmly seated onto the bolts/studs with the nuts so that there is no play in the wheel before lowering. You're simply repeating what he already said many posts ago. The firm seating can be either finger-tight as mentioned in the Camry manual or snugged a bit more with a turn or two of the lug wrench before lowering the car (as "Auto Upkeep" prefers). Then the full torquing can be accomplished with the car completely lowered onto the ground (Camry manual) or with the car's tires just barely touching the ground ("Auto Upkeep"). Mark, if you had read more carefully, you would have understood that the logic we're wondering about is /not/ the initial seating of the wheels before lowering. That is a simple given. The logic we're wondering about is Auto Upkeep's recommendation of fully tightening the wheels with the car's tires just barely touching the ground (*without the car actually being fully lowered yet*) /versus/ the Camry manual's recommendation of completely lowering the car before fully tightening the lug nuts. I guess it takes careful reading to make this fine distinction. Mark, you might want to try harder next time. I recommend you re-read the steps I posted from the "Auto Upkeep" book.
From: Mark A on 22 Oct 2007 02:13 "Built_Well" <built_well_toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:471c233f$0$90456 > Ray_O already mentioned (long before you, Mark) that the wheels > need to be firmly seated onto the bolts/studs with the nuts so that > there is no play in the wheel before lowering. You're simply repeating > what he already said many posts ago. > > The firm seating can be either finger-tight as mentioned in the > Camry manual or snugged a bit more with a turn or two of the > lug wrench before lowering the car (as "Auto Upkeep" prefers). > > Then the full torquing can be accomplished with the car completely > lowered onto the ground (Camry manual) or with the car's tires > just barely touching the ground ("Auto Upkeep"). > > Mark, if you had read more carefully, you would have understood that > the logic we're wondering about is /not/ the initial seating of the > wheels before lowering. That is a simple given. > > The logic we're wondering about is Auto Upkeep's recommendation of > fully tightening the wheels with the car's tires just barely touching > the ground (*without the car actually being fully lowered > yet*) /versus/ the Camry manual's recommendation of completely lowering > the car before fully tightening the lug nuts. > > I guess it takes careful reading to make this > fine distinction. Mark, you might want to try harder next time. > > I recommend you re-read the steps I posted from the "Auto Upkeep" book. Please do not snip my post, because you missed what I said. I explained the difference. If you lower the car completely without the wheels being sufficiently tight against the hub, you may not be able to get the proper torque on them. That is because a slightly loose wheel when lowered to ground will be supporting the full weight of the car without being tight and will put an uneven force on the lugnut. Now, if the wheel is secured flush against hub, even if not completely tightened, then this problem will probably not occur, but the Auto Upkeep recommendation is based on the assumption to be sure the wheel is flush against the hub, then tighten it before it is supporting the full weight of the car, but after it is low enough to make sure no problems will occur if it falls off the jack (since it is already close to the ground).
From: Built_Well on 22 Oct 2007 11:44 I've finished trying to educate Mark A. His little mind is into rhetorical games, not honest debate. He's simply repeating the same thing post-after-post.
From: Mark A on 22 Oct 2007 11:58
"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1193067869.342351.153810(a)i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > I've finished trying to educate Mark A. His little mind > is into rhetorical games, not honest debate. > > He's simply repeating the same thing post-after-post. Apparently I have to repeat it because you don't understand English. If you want to call that rhetoric, that is your problem. I explained the difference quite clearly. Toyota wants to err on the side of safety, and the other book wants to err on the side of making sure the wheel is flat against the hub before the lug nuts are tightened. |