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From: Mike Romain on 18 Oct 2007 13:07 Built_Well wrote: > Mike Romain wrote: >> I have honestly never seen anyone crazy enough to put >> a vehicle up on 4 jack stands to change tires. > > I have to disagree here. I'm not a mechanic, but I think > it's customary to use 4 jack stands to rotate tires. What > else would you use to support the car if you don't have an > expensive automotive lift? It's expressly forbidden to > just use a jack alone. One must always use a jack in > conjunction with jack stands. > > If you've never seen anyone "put a vehicle up on 4 jack > stands to change tires," I must assume you've either never > rotated your own tires or you use an expensive automotive > lift to do it. Which is it? > Neither. I try to always keep two tires at least down, so do most people I know it would appear... Most folks change one or at the most two tires at once, never 4. It is far too dangerous getting all 4 corners up in the air when you don't 'have' to, 'especially' if you are using a stock rocker panel jack. When using a floor jack to do a tire, you only need to jack the tire 2" off the ground, then get a stand under there. You don't need to jack the side of the car way up +/- 18" like the rocker panel jacks do. My last few vehicles recommend front to rear rotations, so only one side goes up with a stand under the rear axle. (more room usually at the rear for a stand) If they are getting crossed, then the stand goes under the rear axle and the other side front corner goes up to swap those. Then the opposite is done. It is much safer still having two tires down on the ground, things get really touchy when all four are hanging.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
From: Built_Well on 18 Oct 2007 13:09 Mike Romain wrote: > Built_Well wrote: > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > >> If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point, > >> I use a 2x4 on the saddle of the jack or stand to help > >> spread out the pressure. > > ======== > > > > I don't think this would be a safe idea, Mike. I think > > I saw on the box of some Craftsman jack stands a warning > > not to place anything between the stands and the car. > > > > And here's a quote from the '06 Camry manual relating to > > the jack itself, though not the stands: > > > > "When raising the vehicle, do not place any objects > > on top of or underneath the jack." > > > > The same probably applies to the stands. > > ======== > > Note I said 'if I must'. I 'really really' try not to use rocker panels > for lifting or bracing. > > Maybe not the safest, but you will see what I mean soon enough likely. > > I think spreading out the weight is safer than the jack going through > the rocker panel. > > If you live someplace where they don't use salt on the roads, you might > not run into this, but up here in the rust belt, the bottom of the > rocker panels go soft first usually and that bottom edge seam is always > ratty. > > The factory jack went right on up through the last two Volvo's I owned > pressed seam jacking points on the rockers and neither of these vehicles > was showing any rust. > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... ======== Thanks for telling us about the problem you ran into with the Volvo side rails. Much appreciated. I said the other day that I would not use the double notches along the side rails to lift the car with a floor jack. I would only use the double notches with jack stands after I had lifted the car with a floor jack applied to the front end and rear end jack points behind the bumpers. But I still think it's very dangerous to place a wooden 2-by-4 between your car and the floor jack's saddle or jack stands.
From: Mike Romain on 18 Oct 2007 13:34 Built_Well wrote: > Mike Romain wrote: >> Built_Well wrote: >>> Mike Romain wrote: >>> >>>> If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point, >>>> I use a 2x4 on the saddle of the jack or stand to help >>>> spread out the pressure. >>> ======== >>> >>> I don't think this would be a safe idea, Mike. I think >>> I saw on the box of some Craftsman jack stands a warning >>> not to place anything between the stands and the car. >>> >>> And here's a quote from the '06 Camry manual relating to >>> the jack itself, though not the stands: >>> >>> "When raising the vehicle, do not place any objects >>> on top of or underneath the jack." >>> >>> The same probably applies to the stands. >>> ======== >> Note I said 'if I must'. I 'really really' try not to use rocker panels >> for lifting or bracing. >> >> Maybe not the safest, but you will see what I mean soon enough likely. >> >> I think spreading out the weight is safer than the jack going through >> the rocker panel. >> >> If you live someplace where they don't use salt on the roads, you might >> not run into this, but up here in the rust belt, the bottom of the >> rocker panels go soft first usually and that bottom edge seam is always >> ratty. >> >> The factory jack went right on up through the last two Volvo's I owned >> pressed seam jacking points on the rockers and neither of these vehicles >> was showing any rust. >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... > ======== > > Thanks for telling us about the problem you ran into with the > Volvo side rails. Much appreciated. > > I said the other day that I would not use the double notches > along the side rails to lift the car with a floor jack. I would > only use the double notches with jack stands after I had lifted > the car with a floor jack applied to the front end and rear end > jack points behind the bumpers. > > But I still think it's very dangerous to place a wooden 2-by-4 > between your car and the floor jack's saddle or jack stands. > I won't disagree on the safety of the 2x4 or just jacking in general which is why I use the jack, a stand and toss the tire under the edge of the vehicle before working on them, 2x4 or not... They come down 'amazingly' easy..... I crushed the first set of rocker panel jacking points with a hoist back in the early 70's when I worked in garages and learned then that they aren't strong enough on older vehicles here in the rust belt. These won't hold the 'weight' of the vehicle, no matter what is pushing on them, be it a jack, a hoist or a jack stand. The problem is the damage happens before the vehicle actually 'looks' like a rust bucket so at what point is it no longer safe? You will see, just be careful. Mike
From: Built_Well on 18 Oct 2007 13:32 Mike Romain wrote: > It is far too dangerous getting all 4 corners up in the air... ======== Ray raises all 4 corners of the car completely off the ground when he's rotating tires. He and Hachiroku also have an interesting exchange from the archive from April 5, 2006.
From: Built_Well on 18 Oct 2007 13:41
Mike Romain wrote: > My last few vehicles recommend front to rear rotations, so only one side > goes up with a stand under the rear axle. (more room usually at the rear > for a stand)_ > ____________ > If they are getting crossed, then the stand goes under the rear axle and > the other side front corner goes up to swap those. Then the opposite is > done.____________ > ______________ > It is much safer still having two tires down on the ground, things get > really touchy when all four are hanging.... ======== Having only one side of the car raised sounds dangerous to me. I remember reading a warning on the box of a Craftsman or Walmart jack stand that said the stands should /not/ be used to lift only one side of the car. It's okay to lift one /end/ of the car (front end and/or rear end), but not one side (left side or right side). At least that's what the box said. |