OBD II Error Codes, P0130 & P0150
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From: Jeff Strickland on 12 Mar 2010 15:48 I'm getting codes that indicate Fuel Trim Error (P0130 and P0150) and O2 Sensor Error (P0170 and P0173)-- no indication that the error is a lean or rich condition. The codes are P0130 & P0170 for Bank 1 Sensor 1, and P0150 & P0173 for Bank 2 Sensor 1. I also have a P1188 and P1189 code that are unique BMW codes that also point to Fuel Control, B1 S1 and Fuel Control B2 S1, which come from the O2 Sensors I understand that Fuel Trim is sensed by the O2 Sensor, and therefore I am having three reports from each of the two O2 Sensors (for a total of 6 reports). I could have two failed O2 Sensors at the same time, but I'm inclined to look first to an upstream problem that can affect both O2 Sensors instead. I understand the theory, but I am finally faced with the practical application of specific tests that I've never done before. My feeling is that I should first look to cleaning the MAF since this is something that fits the "fix the cheap stuff first" theory of repair. Bottom line is that I have two different O2 Sensors that are each reporting the same problem three different ways, giving me six reports. I think that if I find the upstream trouble spot, I can fix all six reports at once. That's my idea. I'd enjoy some thoughts ...
From: Ray O on 12 Mar 2010 17:39 "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hne9aq$mb2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > I'm getting codes that indicate Fuel Trim Error (P0130 and P0150) and O2 > Sensor Error (P0170 and P0173)-- no indication that the error is a lean or > rich condition. > > The codes are P0130 & P0170 for Bank 1 Sensor 1, and P0150 & P0173 for > Bank 2 Sensor 1. I also have a P1188 and P1189 code that are unique BMW > codes that also point to Fuel Control, B1 S1 and Fuel Control B2 S1, which > come from the O2 Sensors > > I understand that Fuel Trim is sensed by the O2 Sensor, and therefore I am > having three reports from each of the two O2 Sensors (for a total of 6 > reports). > > I could have two failed O2 Sensors at the same time, but I'm inclined to > look first to an upstream problem that can affect both O2 Sensors instead. > I understand the theory, but I am finally faced with the practical > application of specific tests that I've never done before. My feeling is > that I should first look to cleaning the MAF since this is something that > fits the "fix the cheap stuff first" theory of repair. > > Bottom line is that I have two different O2 Sensors that are each > reporting the same problem three different ways, giving me six reports. I > think that if I find the upstream trouble spot, I can fix all six reports > at once. That's my idea. I'd enjoy some thoughts ... > More info please... engine layout - I6, V8, etc. model year mileage exhaust leaks? how does the engine run? - good? bad? manifold vacuum (in. Hg) at idle? CA emissions? For cheap stuff, try some Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner or whatever stuff BMS dealers sell. I don't know if your car has a MAF or MAP sensor -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)
From: Jeff Strickland on 12 Mar 2010 19:30 "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message news:hnefrq$3oa$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:hne9aq$mb2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> I'm getting codes that indicate Fuel Trim Error (P0130 and P0150) and O2 >> Sensor Error (P0170 and P0173)-- no indication that the error is a lean >> or rich condition. >> >> The codes are P0130 & P0170 for Bank 1 Sensor 1, and P0150 & P0173 for >> Bank 2 Sensor 1. I also have a P1188 and P1189 code that are unique BMW >> codes that also point to Fuel Control, B1 S1 and Fuel Control B2 S1, >> which come from the O2 Sensors >> >> I understand that Fuel Trim is sensed by the O2 Sensor, and therefore I >> am having three reports from each of the two O2 Sensors (for a total of 6 >> reports). >> >> I could have two failed O2 Sensors at the same time, but I'm inclined to >> look first to an upstream problem that can affect both O2 Sensors >> instead. I understand the theory, but I am finally faced with the >> practical application of specific tests that I've never done before. My >> feeling is that I should first look to cleaning the MAF since this is >> something that fits the "fix the cheap stuff first" theory of repair. >> >> Bottom line is that I have two different O2 Sensors that are each >> reporting the same problem three different ways, giving me six reports. I >> think that if I find the upstream trouble spot, I can fix all six reports >> at once. That's my idea. I'd enjoy some thoughts ... >> > > More info please... > engine layout - I6, V8, etc. > model year > mileage > exhaust leaks? > how does the engine run? - good? bad? > manifold vacuum (in. Hg) at idle? > CA emissions? > > For cheap stuff, try some Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner or > whatever stuff BMS dealers sell. > > I don't know if your car has a MAF or MAP sensor > -- Inline 6, 2000 323i with 160k miles. No exhaust leaks, runs excellent, vacuum is unknown. CA emissions. I hadn't thought of stuff to pour into the gas, I generally consider that to be snake oil. The car is supposed to get 91 octane, but runs well on 89, but I just bought it from a tightwad that may have been using 87 for all these years. I wouldn't imagine 87 would spoil the works, but don't really know one way or the other. I'd expect some performance drop off with the lower grade, but no long term illness. If the O2s were reporting either rich or lean, I'd have a better clue as to what to be looking for. I'm rejecting (for now) the idea that both O2 Sensors can fail at the same time. It's a possibility, but so's being struck by lightning. I'd like to focus my initial efforts on a common cause that can throw both sensors off. I suspect the problem is that the O2 Sensors are seeing a real and proper condition because an upstream component is not working right. The O2 wants the fuel mixture to change, but the upstream condition is not allowing it, and the O2s are reporting the lack of compliance with the setting it wants to see.
From: Jeff Strickland on 13 Mar 2010 18:24 I have my scan tool connected, and the O2 Sensor errors are not coming up, but I am getting repeated unique codes for Fuel Control (P1188 and P1189) that don't turn the MIL on. I also got an instance or two of P0170 and P0173, Fuel Trim, B1 and B2, respectively. I also am getting pounded by P03nn series errors that indicate Misfire of the plug position represented by nn. The test scenario is that the car is parked my my garage with the engine running (garage door open, DUH!), but not moving anywhere. I did drive the car 25-ish miles and had the P1188 and P1189 codes that did not light the MIL, and that would go away on their own as I drove -- the scan tool repeats the scan every 30 seconds, and several times the repeat scan would turn the codes off without me having done anything. I got a couple of P0170 and P0173 events that turned the MIL on. I also got random misfires that never hit all cylinders at the same time, but did hit them all in varying combinations. If there was a misfire, then that would pump lots of gas into the exhaust stream before the car reacted. If the misfire events were separated by a few firings of good plugs, then could the resulting fuel levels be high enough to trigger the Fuel Control (P1188 and P1189) codes and the Fuel Trim codes also? Maybe all I need is a box full of spark plugs ... Also, if the misfire event is singular and repeated after a proper firing event, and spread across different plugs that also have singular misfire events, would the result be lots of fuel in the exhaust that the O2 Sensors would report as Fuel Trim and maybe the O2 Sensor Malfunction (P0130 and P0150)>
From: Ray O on 13 Mar 2010 23:57
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hnh6se$p7$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >I have my scan tool connected, and the O2 Sensor errors are not coming up, >but I am getting repeated unique codes for Fuel Control (P1188 and P1189) >that don't turn the MIL on. I also got an instance or two of P0170 and >P0173, Fuel Trim, B1 and B2, respectively. > > I also am getting pounded by P03nn series errors that indicate Misfire of > the plug position represented by nn. The test scenario is that the car is > parked my my garage with the engine running (garage door open, DUH!), but > not moving anywhere. > > I did drive the car 25-ish miles and had the P1188 and P1189 codes that > did not light the MIL, and that would go away on their own as I drove -- > the scan tool repeats the scan every 30 seconds, and several times the > repeat scan would turn the codes off without me having done anything. I > got a couple of P0170 and P0173 events that turned the MIL on. I also got > random misfires that never hit all cylinders at the same time, but did hit > them all in varying combinations. > > If there was a misfire, then that would pump lots of gas into the exhaust > stream before the car reacted. If the misfire events were separated by a > few firings of good plugs, then could the resulting fuel levels be high > enough to trigger the Fuel Control (P1188 and P1189) codes and the Fuel > Trim codes also? Maybe all I need is a box full of spark plugs ... Also, > if the misfire event is singular and repeated after a proper firing event, > and spread across different plugs that also have singular misfire events, > would the result be lots of fuel in the exhaust that the O2 Sensors would > report as Fuel Trim and maybe the O2 Sensor Malfunction (P0130 and P0150)> > > OK, if you purchased the car used, and the maintenance history is unknown, then I'd start by replacing the spark plugs with OEM spark plugs and ignition wires. Multiple misfire events can cause the O2 sensors to detect a richer mixture than the fuel trim can control. As far as the fuel injector cleaner goes, I do not recommend routinely putting stuff into the fuel tank as it can eventually damage the injectors, but Techron fuel injector cleaner is safe to use to correct a clogged injector as needed, i.e., when a possible clogged fuel injector condition exists. If your scan tool has the ability to freeze frame O2 sensor voltages, then you can see if they are detecting rich or lean conditions. A rich condition could be caused by an ignition misfire, and a lean condition could be caused by a clogged injector. If you had a multi-lead oscilloscope, you could see the relationship between O2 sensor voltages, ignition, and injector pulses. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |