Large Wheels vs Pleasant Ride [Toyota]

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From: Jeff Strickland on 3 Jun 2010 12:23

"Conscience" <nobama@g�v.com> wrote in message
news:86q2skFpe0U1(a)mid.individual.net...
> On 2010-06-03 08:43:41 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com>
> said:
>
>>> Are the 17s factory wheels? Even if not, I'll bet they're not
>>> heavyweights. The rough ride doesn't usually kick in until you go to 18
>>> or 19" wheels.
>>>
>>> We have 18s on our 330 with ZHP, but they're light weight. The ride
>>> isn't
>>> cushy, but that's also due to the differences between ZHP and normal 330
>>> suspension.
>>>
>>
>> Yes they are factory wheels. My 17s came from a '95 M3.
>
> There ya' go. Light weight.
>
>> What's ZHP?
>
> It's commonly called the Performance Package, not Sports Package. M
> steering wheel, suspension components, intake, and camshaft profiles are
> all different from the usual 330. You won't find many around, and for
> used Bimmers they have better resale value.
>
> And it does corner on rails. ;-)
>
>> The Ultimate Driving Machine should not feel like you're driving a basket
>> of
>> pillows, it should feel like a slot car on rails. I would expect anybody
>> going into a new relationship with a BMW -- or Porsche or Audi or <insert
>> performance car here> -- to be wanting a ride that's not cushy. I see
>> people
>> complaining that their BMW follows the rain grooves that are cut into the
>> freeway, and they don't like the twitchiness that results. My car follows
>> those grooves, and I think to myself, "Man! I can really feel the road. I
>> like it. This is what driving is all about."
>
> Exactly. Feedback that's important to those of us with actual driving
> skills.
>
>> Enough about BMWs, lets get back to off topic politics ...
>>
>> Did you hear the one about the african american that walked into the
>> white
>> house?
>
> I'm all ears...
>

He had a parrot on his shoulder, and the guy at the door said, "that's nice,
where did you find him?"

The parrot said, "chicago."

From: Jeff Strickland on 3 Jun 2010 12:29

From: Jeff Strickland on 3 Jun 2010 13:01

"Conscience" <nobama@g�v.com> wrote in message
news:86q436F12hU1(a)mid.individual.net...
> On 2010-06-03 09:29:58 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com>
> said:
>
>>
>> "Conscience" <nobama@g�v.com> wrote in message
>> news:86q2skFpe0U1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>> On 2010-06-03 08:43:41 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>>> Are the 17s factory wheels? Even if not, I'll bet they're not
>>>>> heavyweights. The rough ride doesn't usually kick in until you go to
>>>>> 18
>>>>> or 19" wheels.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have 18s on our 330 with ZHP, but they're light weight. The ride
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> cushy, but that's also due to the differences between ZHP and normal
>>>>> 330
>>>>> suspension.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes they are factory wheels. My 17s came from a '95 M3.
>>>
>>> There ya' go. Light weight.
>>>
>>>> What's ZHP?
>>>
>>> It's commonly called the Performance Package, not Sports Package. M
>>> steering wheel, suspension components, intake, and camshaft profiles are
>>> all different from the usual 330. You won't find many around, and for
>>> used Bimmers they have better resale value.
>>>
>>> And it does corner on rails. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> So, ZHP replaces the Sports Package of the E36 cars? Can one have a 325
>> of
>> the 330 vintage and get it with as a ZHP? I can't imagine why one might
>> want
>> that. My kids both have the 323, and the 328 is the move-up model for
>> that
>> year. But if they had a later car, they might have the 325, with the 330
>> as
>> the move-up.
>
> No. The E46 still had the Sports package, which had 17" rims and some
> trim improvements. The ZHP was an entirely different animal, higher on
> the food chain. Even the body had aspects that resemble the M3.
>
> Here's a picture of our cabriolet, though not the same color:
>
> http://www.lasvegasautosports.com/images/06330CICWhite/zhp%20(Small).jpg
>
> Or the sedan, which happends to be our color:
>
> http://www.reveuro.com/inventory/bmw330i_zhp_10059/bmw330i_zhp_performancepkg_13.jpg
>

So there is the basic car, the Sports Package, then the ZHP -- which is
almost an M? Got it.

From: C. E. White on 3 Jun 2010 13:23

"croy" <hate(a)spam.invalid.net> wrote in message
news:cvvd06lmbr91u6gtthv75a2e1dl43irbm6(a)4ax.com...
> I've read a number of reviews that talk about larger wheels
> and tires producing a less comfortable ride. I would have
> thought that the opposite would be true.
>
> What do the engineering minded folks here say?

My opinion is that you would get a better ride with tires that have
wider sidewalls. This would allow for more flexing of the side walls
and provide a smoother ride.

Tire/wheel combinations with large wheels and very low profile tires
(i.e., narrow sidewalls) are not consistent with providing the best
ride.

Heavy tire wheel combinations are also not consistent with providing a
good ride.

Ideally you want very low unsprung weight (i.e., lighter tire/wheel
combinations), flexible sidewalls, a lot of spring travel, and well
adjusted shock absorbers to provide a good ride. There are always
compromises to be made between ride and handling. However, having a
bone jarring ride is often not consistent with good handling either.

Large shiny chrome wheels with low profile tires are not the choice of
the engineers trying to come up with the best ride/handling balance -
they are the choice of stylist and boy racer want-to-bes. I suspect
that if you want the best ride on a large car, you would go back to
15" steel wheels with 78 profile tires from around 1972. Totally
uncool today. Some people think the large chrome plated mag wheels are
light - they are fooling themselves in many cases.

Ed

From: croy on 3 Jun 2010 13:40

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:53:47 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"croy" <hate(a)spam.invalid.net> wrote in message
>news:cvvd06lmbr91u6gtthv75a2e1dl43irbm6(a)4ax.com...
>> I've read a number of reviews that talk about larger wheels
>> and tires producing a less comfortable ride. I would have
>> thought that the opposite would be true.
>>
>> What do the engineering minded folks here say?
>>
>
>
>The taller sidewall is more pliable than a narrow one. Therefore, the
>reasoning is that when you take off a 15 inch rim and replace it with an 18
>inch rim, the resulting tire will have a sidewall that is so narrow that it
>will have no flexibility at all. This should translate to a harsher ride.

Hmmm. I was thinking along the lines of a consistant wall
height, comparing cars with larger wheels *and* larger tires
to cars with smaller wheels and smaller tires.

I seem to recall Consumer Reports writing that a certain
make and model of SUV was generally good, but its large
wheels made the ride "jittery". In the photo, I remember
thinking that the tire sidewalls didn't look particularly
narrow, the wheels and tires did look to be pretty good
sized--something like a Murano, but I just looked again, and
they didn't write that about the Murano.

--
croy

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