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From: HiC on 18 Nov 2007 20:18
On Nov 18, 12:15 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
wrote:

> The OP should check the replacement fan clutch operation and also think
> about the part of the head gasket that is obstructing the cooling jacket
> holes. Unfortunately, this is not that easy to check :-(


Okay, some more observations. Last night I put a temp gauge in place
of the temp sender and duct taped the dial where it was visible low on
the windshield. The sender cable was snaked inside of the engine
compartment being careful not to interfere with anything, be in danger
of laying on the exhaust manifold, fall into the fan, etc. and
carefully verified that the hood wasn't going to crimp it when shut.

Driving around from speeds from idle to to 60 or so, I found the gauge
varying between 188ish to about around 200. Not sure what the temp
rating of the thermostat in place is. The outside temp was probably in
the low 50s or high 40's.

As suggested, I checked the tightness of the fan after the veh had
been up to speed for some time. I finger spun the fan and found it to
be much *looser* than it had been when the engine was cold. I
installed yet another fresh from Autozone fan clutch since the first
one is a liftetime warranty and figure I can always take the first one
back and get my money back under the warranty. It behaves essentially
the same way, much looser hot than when cold when hand-spun.

This seems backwards from how I understand them to work. Is hand-
spinning the fan clutch with the engine off a valid way to test it?
Does it require the centrifual force to operate or should it be
noticeably tighter hot than cold when hand-spun? Actually, the one
time I heard a noticeable whooshing change in the sound of the fan was
a few moments after first firing up the car, when still cold, it
behaved like it was tightening and moving more air. Is it possible
that Autzone's fan clutches are just uniformly junk and I just haven't
gotten a good one yet? Both of these fan clutches feel quite tight to
me when holding them in my hand cold and turning the shaft by hand.

When I first got this car, the temp gauge stayed locked in the center,
I was actually concerned whether it was working correctly.

Autozone showed 2 thermostats for this engine. A 180 deg and 192,
showing 192 as the factory spec. I'm going to try a new 180 deg and
see if that has any effect. Yes, the current therm is installed
correctly AFAIK, the "snout" side toward the upper rad hose, the
spring side toward the engine side of the therm housing.

As far as the head gasket, it's a Fel Pro that's supposed to be for
this engine. Isn't Fel Pro supposed to be pretty reliable as far as
fitting the way they're supposed to? I'll put another one on if
nothing else seems to cure the issue, but not relishing going through
that drill, not to mention expense.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 18 Nov 2007 22:13
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:18:29 -0800, HiC wrote:

> On Nov 18, 12:15 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> The OP should check the replacement fan clutch operation and also think
>> about the part of the head gasket that is obstructing the cooling jacket
>> holes. Unfortunately, this is not that easy to check :-(
>
>
> Okay, some more observations. Last night I put a temp gauge in place of
> the temp sender and duct taped the dial where it was visible low on the
> windshield. The sender cable was snaked inside of the engine compartment
> being careful not to interfere with anything, be in danger of laying on
> the exhaust manifold, fall into the fan, etc. and carefully verified that
> the hood wasn't going to crimp it when shut.
>
> Driving around from speeds from idle to to 60 or so, I found the gauge
> varying between 188ish to about around 200. Not sure what the temp rating
> of the thermostat in place is. The outside temp was probably in the low
> 50s or high 40's.

This is about right. Thermostats are not really accurate, so around 200
degrees is just about right. If this is where it stays, I wouldn't worry a
whole lot. If "around 200" is OVER 200, I'd try the lower thermostat and
see what happens.

>
> As suggested, I checked the tightness of the fan after the veh had been up
> to speed for some time. I finger spun the fan and found it to be much
> *looser* than it had been when the engine was cold. I installed yet
> another fresh from Autozone fan clutch since the first one is a liftetime
> warranty and figure I can always take the first one back and get my money
> back under the warranty. It behaves essentially the same way, much looser
> hot than when cold when hand-spun.
>
> This seems backwards from how I understand them to work. Is hand- spinning
> the fan clutch with the engine off a valid way to test it? Does it require
> the centrifual force to operate or should it be noticeably tighter hot
> than cold when hand-spun? Actually, the one time I heard a noticeable
> whooshing change in the sound of the fan was a few moments after first
> firing up the car, when still cold, it behaved like it was tightening and
> moving more air. Is it possible that Autzone's fan clutches are just
> uniformly junk and I just haven't gotten a good one yet? Both of these fan
> clutches feel quite tight to me when holding them in my hand cold and
> turning the shaft by hand.

Mine spins tight when cold, but also tight when hot. Not quite as tight,
but you can't spin it with a flick of the wrist, either. It moves 3-4
blades when spun hot.

Also, the AZ clutch can be HEARD when coming on at highway speeds. The
damn thing sounds like a B-17 taking off! If the guage goes up, and the
fan comes on (and you hear it) and the guage goes down, the clutch is
working.


>
> When I first got this car, the temp gauge stayed locked in the center, I
> was actually concerned whether it was working correctly.
>
> Autozone showed 2 thermostats for this engine. A 180 deg and 192, showing
> 192 as the factory spec. I'm going to try a new 180 deg and see if that
> has any effect. Yes, the current therm is installed correctly AFAIK, the
> "snout" side toward the upper rad hose, the spring side toward the engine
> side of the therm housing.
>
> As far as the head gasket, it's a Fel Pro that's supposed to be for this
> engine. Isn't Fel Pro supposed to be pretty reliable as far as fitting the
> way they're supposed to? I'll put another one on if nothing else seems to
> cure the issue, but not relishing going through that drill, not to mention
> expense.


Actually, if you're not overhauling the engine, replacing the HG on this
car isn't a lot. Shoot, you're 2/3 of the way there when you replace the
spark plugs and the valve cover gaskets!! All there is left is to remove
the intake runner and exhaust manifold, and then unbolt the head.

I had a very similar problem to what you're having, and thought I was on
my way to a BHG, but replacing the fan clutch and then the shroud under
the car resolved it.

But note: after replacing the fan clutch, the temp was NOT as rock steady
as it had been before the OEM fan clutch went bad! I notice the guage
moving up and down a bit, but it never gets over 1/2 way up the guage.




From: HiC on 18 Nov 2007 22:32
On Nov 18, 10:13 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...(a)AE86.gts> wrote:

> But note: after replacing the fan clutch, the temp was NOT as rock steady
> as it had been before the OEM fan clutch went bad! I notice the guage
> moving up and down a bit, but it never gets over 1/2 way up the guage.


Hmm, so maybe worth the extra yen to buy a gen-yoo-whine Toyota fan
clutch from the dealer? Or is there some other vendor that's just as
good or better? I actually started a new thread on that topic.

From: HiC on 18 Nov 2007 22:39
On Nov 18, 10:13 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...(a)AE86.gts> wrote:

>
> Mine spins tight when cold, but also tight when hot. Not quite as tight,
> but you can't spin it with a flick of the wrist, either. It moves 3-4
> blades when spun hot.


I keep reading that they're supposed to be loose when cold, tight when
hot...?
From: Ray O on 18 Nov 2007 22:53

"HiC" <brassplyer(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ab33260c-cc98-41cb-ac9a-5f8e32fa268a(a)n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 18, 12:15 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
> wrote:
>
>> The OP should check the replacement fan clutch operation and also think
>> about the part of the head gasket that is obstructing the cooling jacket
>> holes. Unfortunately, this is not that easy to check :-(
>
>
> Okay, some more observations. Last night I put a temp gauge in place
> of the temp sender and duct taped the dial where it was visible low on
> the windshield. The sender cable was snaked inside of the engine
> compartment being careful not to interfere with anything, be in danger
> of laying on the exhaust manifold, fall into the fan, etc. and
> carefully verified that the hood wasn't going to crimp it when shut.
>
> Driving around from speeds from idle to to 60 or so, I found the gauge
> varying between 188ish to about around 200. Not sure what the temp
> rating of the thermostat in place is. The outside temp was probably in
> the low 50s or high 40's.

Those temps are about normal. If the gauge is reading high at that point,
then there is a problem with the coolant temperature sender, instrument
panel gauge, or associated wiring. My guess is the gauge or temperature
sender.

>
> As suggested, I checked the tightness of the fan after the veh had
> been up to speed for some time. I finger spun the fan and found it to
> be much *looser* than it had been when the engine was cold. I
> installed yet another fresh from Autozone fan clutch since the first
> one is a liftetime warranty and figure I can always take the first one
> back and get my money back under the warranty. It behaves essentially
> the same way, much looser hot than when cold when hand-spun.
>
> This seems backwards from how I understand them to work. Is hand-
> spinning the fan clutch with the engine off a valid way to test it?
> Does it require the centrifual force to operate or should it be
> noticeably tighter hot than cold when hand-spun? Actually, the one
> time I heard a noticeable whooshing change in the sound of the fan was
> a few moments after first firing up the car, when still cold, it
> behaved like it was tightening and moving more air. Is it possible
> that Autzone's fan clutches are just uniformly junk and I just haven't
> gotten a good one yet? Both of these fan clutches feel quite tight to
> me when holding them in my hand cold and turning the shaft by hand.

Yes, it is possible that the aftermarket fan clutches are uniformly junk and
you have not gotten a good one yet.

>
> When I first got this car, the temp gauge stayed locked in the center,
> I was actually concerned whether it was working correctly.
>
> Autozone showed 2 thermostats for this engine. A 180 deg and 192,
> showing 192 as the factory spec. I'm going to try a new 180 deg and
> see if that has any effect. Yes, the current therm is installed
> correctly AFAIK, the "snout" side toward the upper rad hose, the
> spring side toward the engine side of the therm housing.

Don't bother with the thermostat. I don't think the thermostat is the cause
of the problem.
>
> As far as the head gasket, it's a Fel Pro that's supposed to be for
> this engine. Isn't Fel Pro supposed to be pretty reliable as far as
> fitting the way they're supposed to? I'll put another one on if
> nothing else seems to cure the issue, but not relishing going through
> that drill, not to mention expense.

Fel-Pro has a reputation for good gasket products. I suspect that the
application information was incorrect, rather than the gasket being
defective.

Before you go swapping any more parts, think about installing a separate
coolant temperature system, or at least get the spec for the correct voltage
from the coolant temperature sender, hook up some long wires into the
passenger compartment, hook up a volt meter to the wires, and monitor
temperature by voltage. I suspect that the car is not actually overheating.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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